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firestorm: Their cities did have walls actually, and they protected themselves against thieves and invaders.Its like this...when Jesus sent the disciples on a stretch of road that was full of thieves, He told them to sell their cloaks and buy a sword. He wanted them to protect themselves from thieves.If I came to your door Art, and told you that I was hungry and wanted to work for food and board... if you were a Christian and operating according to Christian teachings, then you would try to help me the best that you could. What you could not do, you would direct me to someone who could.But if I broke in on you as a thief and snuck in and started helping myself to things that were yours and acted like it was my right to do so... CALL THE POLICE! Evict me, because I am not only breaking the law, but I have come against you personally.This country more than any other in history is based on immigration. Half of my background is American Indian... Cherokee, so if you want to get really technical they are the rightful inhabitants of America. But the country itself... the USA is based on legal immigration and colonization leading to citizenship. There is a process that is proven and Constitutional.What people do when they jump the borders and take the locals jobs because they will work for way under the minimum wage... they put our people out of work and run unemployment up... and then send the money that they make back to Mexico. They then get government benefits superior than the poor person that they took his job from... and they came into the country like a thief.Not only that, but the border is the doorway to the illegal drug trafficking into this country along with some other equally nasty things.Your analogy does not hold water. Jesus would tell you to send those who came in as robbers home and let them come in through a righteous manner.They are not beggars... they come in as thieves. If they came in begging, then show them mercy and help them. If they come in wanting to work, then let them get a Visa and work and follow the rules like the rest of us have to. Don't break in though. You don't have a clue on what is really going on apparently. What I have given you is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a militant arm of these illegals that are doing some very disturbing things... and its the corruption in the businesses that benefit by cutting the American worker's throat by hiring them that pays the Congressmen to be easy on them. That must be stopped.

James

firestorm: or full of yourself, maybe. It just blows my mind at your lack of understanding considering how sure that you are at my knowledge and intimacy with Jesus. It is sad, but it amazes me at the levels that you make assumptions about me and other believers in Jesus Christ. This isn't some religious idea... I know Him... personally... lovingly... its powerful and deep. I had to have someone or something real when I came to Jesus. I had tried a lot of other things and religions actually. I wanted reality, and got it with Jesus! In fact, I was healed of bleeding ulcers one week later in about 5 seconds time... 3 years of hospitalizations for bleeding ulcers (don't drink heavily while you are doing speed... it will eat you up). I had been in the hospital because I had been throwing up blood from it 2 weeks before. I was healed! I was made whole... not only did I have peace and love and joy and life... I had a miracle of healing in 5 seconds time. Try me... we will go out and eat Italian or Mexican or Cajun sometime.Friend... this is not some religion to me. Hang religion! I tried that stuff when I was younger and it wasn't real. Jesus Christ is real... and He is my friend... and I know His voice, and you know... He talks to me. He has told me things that has given me great insight that I could not have known any other way. He has loved me... and been with me... and never left me all these years. I know Him more than I know anyone, and He knows me more than anyone on the Earth.I have seen cancers healed and blinded eyes open and the crippled made whole and spines put back together creaking and cracking as they did... but the real miracles is when you see the lost born again and filled with love and joy and given real life! It's when you see the one totally addicted to drugs or alchohol just quit because they get the real thing in their lives and Jesus sets the free! He is real, Art and you have no clue who He really is! It is the height of arrogance for you to act like that. Learn before you speak.Its not just a book Art, to those who will open their minds to faith... it is the Word of Life... its alive! It gives life... it gave life to a destructive/self-destructive drug-abusing alcoholic intellectual idiot back in 1983. It introduced me to Jesus Christ who came into my life in a moment... and pushed all of that darkness out the next moment. It made the middle of the night look like the brightest day in comparison to where I was after He came in.You have no idea what you are talking about... this isn't religion Art. You feel so smug and you are just so lost. God help you... I feel so sorry for you... you are just so lost and without a clue. You have no idea what you are missing... who you are missing. You have no idea what your life could be if the Light of God would shine in your life... you could have abundant life! You just don't have a clue... God help me to reach you. I don't know how to reach someone as religious as you are. Religion kills, and the kind of fanatical skepticism you have is one of the most deadly of all religions. There is a true religion, but it is more than just what we think of the word... it is a walk of love and power in Jesus Christ, and it goes WAY beyond just some philosophy or religion of man. You are just so lost... the thing is that I really like you and I just have no idea how to reach you. I have no idea how to really get the truth to you since you are so arrogantly satisfied in your own wisdom and knowledge. How do you get past something like that? Its as bad as any modern day Pharisee that I have come up against.I have read a lot of books myself... many in fact, but none were full of life like the Bible. This book is still challenging me... its alive. Without the Spirit though, its just dead words.I have mixed feelings about the colonization of America... true enough. There was no rule of law at first. But when the rule of Law came... and it was a very good Law, it should be obeyed by all equally. Read the American Constitution and Bill of Rights sometime. Its beautiful actually. Actually, many native Americans did welcome the white man at first. And many lived in peace. Here where I live, there was a village of Indians known as the Quadrule, and the local white settlers and the Quadrule intermarried and lived as one people. They had peace and respect for one another.It wasn't all wrong. Greed is normally what messed things up... greed and a disrespect all around for others not like yourself... it is a lack of love, and greed as I said. What the Spaniards did to the South American Tribes for example was horrific. What Andrew Jackson started was attrocious with the Trail of Tears. There were many things done wrongly... but NOTICE... then, it was the white man who was breaking his own law. IT IS WRONG NO MATTER WHO DOES IT. IT WAS WRONG WHEN THE WHITE MAN BROKE HIS OWN LAW AND TREATIES, AND IT IS WRONG TODAY WHEN THE MEXICAN BREAKS AMERICAN LAW BY TRESSPASSING BY STEALTH AND TAKES THAT WHICH IS NOT RIGHTFULLY THEIRS TO HAVE. It is just plain wrong. Just because one generation did wrong, does not give another generation the right to do wrong as well.Perhaps we need to discuss basic ethics?There is no respect of people or law in what these illegal aliens are doing. It is hurting Americans, and I can say that because I have seen it up close and personal. I pastored in an area that had people who wanted work and there was none. The main reason is that local businesses would take buses down to the border and load up illegals and bring them back here... help set them up 14 or more to a house and pay them a few dollars/hour so that they could cut their costs that way. No FICA or insurance or benefits or taxes to pay... slave labor basically. And the Mexicans would come and basically work... stay drunk (and that caused some real troubles in the neighborhoods where they lived) when not at work, and send most of the money back to Mexico. And locals were trying like crazy to find even minimum wage work... and there was none because of the practices of those companies.The greed of the industries that support this are as much or more to blame than the illegals. Illegals are just that... unlawfully here. I have no problem at all with them coming here legally. If I went into Mexico to work, I would go on a Visa. I would not sneak in. In fact, they have very harsh illegal alien laws in Mexico. We need those here.Art... I am here. I have seen this. Understand that we ministered to many of these illegals in the area. I married one couple there of a local girl and an illegal man. I liked him actually, and he was trying to get legal status then. The thing is that we are being flooded by them. It has become a very serious problem. Only a handful were legal. See, the legal ones went after legitimate jobs. And these companies were not offering those. The corruption of greed is the big culprit, but it is causing a lot of other problems that I won't get into.

Jim
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John 14:6 (KJV) " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. "
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