My Response to Sandra

Sandra in Nebraska Says:

September 29th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I quit getting my daily dose of Rush Limbaugh after the raid on Waco and the murder of those people. No I’m not “religious” anymore but those people were murdered and their constitutional rights were violated. The week that happened Rush Limbaugh defended Janet Reno and that decision. That told me right there that Limbaugh saw the republicans taking over in the near future and he wanted them to have that kind of authority.

From your post I think it should be clear that it’s high time to keep the wall of separation between church and state intact; to shore it up even stronger than it’s ever been. That goes for the global religionists you mentioned. I live in a town of 5000 people and it’s covered with churches so that is the appropriate place for public expressions/endorsements of religion not to mention the FACT that religion has never been outlawed in schools, kids have always been able to privately pray to their god; but the constitution is clear that the government itself is to remain neutral and not promote any one religion. Churches can paint the 10 commandments on a sign and put it up in the churchyard but not one church in this town has that “display”…and yet, they make a political issue out of trying to put them up in courtrooms or the courthouse lawn (and they make millions of more dollars from the people by whipping them into a frenzy over this unconstitutional attempt)) Give me a break! When I was a christian I prayed everywhere all the time and nobody even knew it because I kept it private…..just like the bible says in Luke 6:5 and 6:6. You don’t give James Dobson enough credit, when he says jump millions of evangelicals ask “How High” and his deal is to make evangelical beliefs the law of the land. Grassley did nothing illegal, he was violating nobody’s civil rights yet that is exactly what Dobson and other leaders accused him of and it looks like that’s the “spin” you’ve bought into. I refuse to stop critizing them because they need more citizens to vocalize what they’ve been doing to our country; they’ve opened themselves up for citicism; they sling mud, tell lies, spread rumors then try to say they’ve got “superior morals”….but cry FOUL everytime they come under any scrutiny. Well, it’s time for that little arrangement to come to an end.

You can vote for who you want to. I voted for Howard Phillips in 1996; I’m just saying that in the big scheme of things we have a two party system and like I said nobody is gonna make everybody happy all the time but one man (GWB) who I voted for in 2000 hasn’t done one damn thing to make me happy. The democrats need to grow a backbone and stand up to the right but they act like they’re scared….but the right is scary because they have SO much power with the common people by manipulation their religion. Any time they’ve [democrats] attempted to move the country in another direction the far-right pudits have had their flock call, call, call and bitch, bitch, bitch until they back down from the pressure. I’m hoping that if Obama wins this election the democrats will see that they don’t have to go along to get along…in fact, they need to fight back. The democrats need to start shoring up “their base” and stop worrying about the criticism they’ll get from the right because the right will always critisize the left even when the left caves to their demands.

My fear is that since the Bush administration has set a prescedent with executive order after executive order to bypass congress, not showing up for supoenas like you or I would be expected to, answering “I don’t recall” everytime they do happen to make an appearance, secrecy on top of secrecy…..and spending more time on ensuring that their party alone will have ultimate power…that the democrats [if they win] will become drunk with power and do the same thing, knowing that since Bush has gotten away with it they will to. I hope that doesn’t happen but only time will tell.

I’m stating facts about evangelicals, you can call it a steortype if you want. Obama did not do the things that the NRA accuses him of in that ad though. And frankly, there does need to be some “rules” to gun ownership, just as there needs to be “rules” for wall street; otherwise, you’ll have chaos and anarchy in a society. — The far-right sure as hell wants rules on people’s private, legal behavior (their sex lives) which is none of their business as long as they’re not breaking any current laws…….and yet, they can’t keep their own pants zipped up or their own panties on. But on the flip side (in order to get their way on social issues) they’ve supported no rules on the uber wealtlhy which is why we have this financial crisis going on today. Now there’s a match made in “hell on earth”.



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My Response:





I'm glad you quit Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh isn't even a true conservative, because he denies the existence of the new world order, supports the torture in Abu Ghraib, and loves the anti-conservative Bush policies. Rush Limbaugh thinks that the Patriot Act is fine when it violates individual liberty and the concepts of warrants. Waco was wrong and the Feds murdered innocent men, women, and children in that incident (along with CS-gas). Rush Limbaugh is a neo con who rarely discusses about real issues (from GM problems, the flouridation of our water supply, etc.). Republicans and Democrats have committed errors. So, nothing unusual is about that. Now, I will answer your words one by one. The seperation of church and state doesn't exist at all in the Constitution. There is an establishment clause. Now, this clause says that the government can't have a national church (or establish a religion). Yet, it should perserve religious expression. There has been violations of religious liberty all over the place in America. You are in error by denying that. During the 1990's, the Supreme Court tried to stop some of the religious violations going on in schools. Religious expression has been restricted heavily in schools from children not mentioning the name of Jesus in a speech to California nearly banning homeschooling. You need to get that clear. Also, the Philadephia 11 involved innocent Christians being arrested for promoting their views peacefully in 2004.


It was so immoral that the court in PA threw the charges out of court. Now, the seperation of church and state was promoted by the Supreme Court explicitly in the 1940's. You being from a small town doesn't deny threats to our religious liberty. A lot of our religious liberty violations occur in urban locations. Doctors who are Pro Life have to use the ADF (or the Alliance Defense Fund) to protect themselves from others wanting to force them to commit abortions. Yes, there should be a distinction between church and state. Although, this distinction doesn't warrant violation of our liberties. The 10 Commandments publicly displayed is as legal as the images of Moses holding the commandments on the Supreme Court pediment. Also you using Bible verses is ironic since you reject religious views. Now, private prayer is fine. Yet, Jesus spoke the Sermon of the Mount in front of a multitude of people. You forgot about that. Also, banning public religious prayer means missionaries could be banned. I concede to you that Grassley did nothing illegal in his prode. Yet, me talking about religious liberty issues isn't spin. You spin with you claiming the religious conservatives are monolithic. You spin by obsessing with blaming religious people while wanting to deemphasize religion (Also, many atheists have committed crimes from Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot).

You spin by sucking up to Democrats in spite of both major parties being funded by the same corporate forces. Now, I don't cry foul. In fact, the anti-religious zealouts cry foul constantly, but ignore innocent religious people being jailed and imprisoned in Canada, England, other nations of Europe, etc. for just peacefully expressing their views religiously. Now, James Dobson is an establishment puppet. He is a threat by sucking up to the anti-conservative John McCain. The answer to him isn't more stereotyping of religious folks. It's the education of people that McCain doesn't have the interests of people on many issues (from his support of anti-First Amendment Laws, his advocacy of the war on terror, and McCain's support of FISA). I will criticize apostate religious people as you do, but I won't be naive and refuse to expose radical anti-religious extremists from many sides as well. The WCC is just as wrong as Dobson. Your voting is interesting. Democrats should have a backbone, but I'm not into the 2 party monopoly any more.

There are many Democrats and Republicans who love liberty though. Bush having too much executive power is true. I abhor the White House's secrecy on many accords. We agree on many things. Calling Bush a conservative Christian is a myth though. Bush is a Skulls and Bones member, loves the occult Bohemian Grove, respects Ecumencialism, etc. He is as much a conservative Christian as Al Sharpton is. Therefore, Bush isn't one. Now, Chuck baldwin, Cutting Edge Ministries, etc. are conservative Christians who have exposed the Bush administration for years more stronger than you have. You need to understand that. Also, there is nothing wrong is not being ashamed of your religious beliefs. It's great, but that shouldn't be a justification to promote a theocracy. Bush's policies being far right in fantasy. Bush has supported over spending and little oversight in the economic affairs. Bush has increased government more than any President in American history (with NORTHCOM, Homeland Security, etc. This is bigger than LBJ's "Great Society" agenda). That's hardly conservative. With the massive bailouts, Bush is an economic socialist. Oversight and accountability is very conservative and liberal principles, so Bush being far right is silly. Bush expanded government, want illegal wars, have nation building, and pass laws which violate individual rights. That is not conservative. That's anti-conservative. You need to comprehend that. He supports the interests of multinational corporations not the American people specifically. The economic crisis we have existed for many decades among both Republicans and Democrats (who supported the CRA revisions and refused to regulate Fannie Mae in the early part of this decade).

The NRA ad was mostly accurate about Obama. Obama haven't called for just simple, little restrictions as you claim (which I don't support, because all citizens have a right to own any gun they want as long as they don't commit a crime with it. Law abiding citizens owning any gun they want along with the law stopping criminals is hardly choas at all). Obama has support big gun restrictions. Here's examples. It's a fact that Barack Obama opposes common sense right to carry laws. It's a fact that Obama opposed in Illinois the right of citizens to use guns for self defense purposes while they reside in their home. It's a fact that Obama supported high taxes on guns, the restriction of certain ammunition, and the hatred gun rights by supporting the DC gun ban. He only supported to outlaw the DC gun ban when the Supreme Court stopped the DC gun ban. Now, Obama may say that he agrees with the individual right of citizens to own guns, but his record doesn't bear that out completely. So, you can't refute that at all. Hence, Obama did do some of the things the NRA accused him of (Although the NRA made some errors). You can't refute that at all unless you use deception. This ad is apart of the First Amendment and some of Obama's supporters wanting to ban it is hypocritically and disgraceful. You talking about sex lives is silly. Roe v. Wade is the epitome of the federal government dictating how people conduct their reproductive lives. Even libertarians oppose Roe since it federalizes abortion laws. Abortion is murder and it should be opposed of course. Now, many conservatives and liberals are moral people. Immorality exists among any human being irrespective of party. Not to mention that legitimate laws do exist that regulate sexual behavior from rape, incest, and pedophilia. So, in most cases, it should be none of your business except if these actions harm another human being or violate moral principles. You should reject these silly stereotypes of yours. Sandra, I told you to bring it. I will bring the facts continuously toward you. Sandra, I've answered you.


By Timothy