Submitted by boblakeman on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 12:52 pm.
So after 27,000 riders tried out Light Rail the first day, Reid Greenmun seriously thinks we should declare the whole project a failure before it officially starts. Reid suggests selling off the rail cars while they are still new.
In what world, other than the Tea Party, would that make sense?
Watch out for well informed lunatics.
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Submitted by trackermw on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 12:14 pm.
In what world, other than the Tea Party, would that make sense?
Watch out for well informed lunatics.
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Submitted by trackermw on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 12:14 pm.
As another person replying asked... let's look at the subsidy for a road like Hampton Blvd and then Ocean View Ave and then 264 and then 64. Now, let's factor in the costs for all of these.
For light rail, you've got what it costs the taxpayers and the riders, just add in a factor for time. Now what does a trip through Norfolk cost the driver (car maintenance, personal property tax, fuel, time)? What does it cost the taxpayer (road construction, maintenance, police patrols, etc.)?
Government is not here to make a profit. You, along with everybody else, enjoys a wide range of services provided for free or at reduced cost that are subsidized by our tax dollars
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For light rail, you've got what it costs the taxpayers and the riders, just add in a factor for time. Now what does a trip through Norfolk cost the driver (car maintenance, personal property tax, fuel, time)? What does it cost the taxpayer (road construction, maintenance, police patrols, etc.)?
Government is not here to make a profit. You, along with everybody else, enjoys a wide range of services provided for free or at reduced cost that are subsidized by our tax dollars
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Excellent Point
Submitted by Frank Allen on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 12:30 pm.
They focus on the Tide because it's an easy target. Posing as if they were TRUE fiscal conservatives. If that were true then they'd all be riding a bike to work.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 6:36 pm.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 6:36 pm.
but it's really bad when you've just called yourself the name.
Gasoline taxes do no fully pay for our roads. According to Subsidyscope, gas taxes only cover 51% of the Federal highway costs.
http://subsidyscope.org/transportation/direct-expenditures/highways/funding/analysis/
Most, although not all, States further subsidize the highways above what is collected via the fuel taxes. And most local streets & roads are paved with property tax dollars, not gas taxes.
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Gasoline taxes do no fully pay for our roads. According to Subsidyscope, gas taxes only cover 51% of the Federal highway costs.
http://subsidyscope.org/transportation/direct-expenditures/highways/funding/analysis/
Most, although not all, States further subsidize the highways above what is collected via the fuel taxes. And most local streets & roads are paved with property tax dollars, not gas taxes.
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Operating cost.
Submitted by truthseeker on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 10:54 am.
People keep reiterating that the Tide will not be a profitmaking operation. Would someone PLEASE tell me ANY public transit system in the US that pays it's own way via rider fares? Anywhere? Any city? Public Transit is just that, a system operating with taxpayer funds to designed benefit a community by reducing private vehicular traffic and enabling people to move from one place to another. The objection that the tide is a moneylosing operation is not a valid one, any more than an argument that a municipal police force or fire department should be profitmaking establishments. They all are taxpayer funded costs of doing business.
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DC AND NYC LIGHT RAIL
Submitted by Frank Allen on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 11:34 am.
The light rail in NYC is actually on the New Jersey side and ran by New Jersey Transit. It runs through cities like Hoboken, Jersey City, Bayonne, etc. and allows transfers to PATH which terminates in Manhattan. The light rail in DC is located near the Anacostia Metro station and runs to Bolling Air Force Base. It's not long at all (going to top out at around 3 miles)and I saw it a few months ago. And I agree. The Tide is primed to go to those locations. I can see the tracks going from EVMS up to ODU and then another alignment going to the base passing through Wards Corner (my block) into the base. Ultimately, it will reach the oceanfront. It's not a question of if...just a matter of when.
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Submitted by hwatkins on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 8:02 pm.
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Submitted by hwatkins on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 8:02 pm.
The vote 12 YEARS AGO was not overwhelming at all. Judging by the tens of thousands of VB residents who are loving the Tide now, I predict an overwhelming win for LRT to the beach.
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Submitted by Frank Allen on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 10:12 am.
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Submitted by Frank Allen on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 10:12 am.
I've seen 7.4 mile backups on 64. And at those times I wish there was an alternative to bypass the traffic. Huh? Cars are a far better bargain? Do you realize how much your car costs you and taxpayers? Which one of these highways around here is making profit for the state? Are our highways subsidized? Post stats please. Factor in the payment (if you still have one), insurance, maintenance, personal property taxes, gas, etc. coupled with the fact that roads have to be constantly maintained (potholes)and tell me about that bargain again buddy. People want to live in the far reaches of the metro area and then complain about the commute! Land use has to change to stop sprawl and for mass transit to be most effective.
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Submitted by Ah-ight Gee on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 7:24 am.
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Submitted by Ah-ight Gee on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 7:24 am.
This is just the first step. Imagine how Hampton Roads will benefit if they extend it out to the beach, and then eventually over the bridges/tunnels to Hampton and Portsmouth/Suffolk.
We might actually have an option other than sitting in traffic for hours stuck on a bridge or a tunnel. What a concept!
I say congrats to HRTA and the City of Norfolk for forging ahead despite all the narrow minded naysayers who want to keep this region stuck in the 20th century. BRAVO!
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We might actually have an option other than sitting in traffic for hours stuck on a bridge or a tunnel. What a concept!
I say congrats to HRTA and the City of Norfolk for forging ahead despite all the narrow minded naysayers who want to keep this region stuck in the 20th century. BRAVO!
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Choose to buy oil and gas?
Submitted by Frank Allen on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 11:07 am.
After the government allowed the highway lobby to rid many cities (like norfolk) of their transit systems in favor of cars and buses? Oh! Choose to buy oil and gas when I have that 5 bedroom home out in Suffolk but work on the naval base? If I choose against oil and gas what other option is there to get to work? The people HAVE to buy oil and gas. You can become VERY rich when you reduce competition. Just a FYI. You said LRT is paid for by "forced taxation" without representation and this is indicative of socialism right? Well, question I have for you is how are highways and roads built? My tax dollars go to Roanoke, Richmond and Fairfax for them to build their roads and bridges. So let's try this again. What exactly are you trying to say?
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Submitted by hwatkins on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 6:53 am.
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Submitted by hwatkins on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 6:53 am.
Even your constant whiney "anti-everything" mentality can't change the fact that tens of thousands of Virginia Beach residents are riding the Tide.
Compare that to the pitiful group of angry uninformed protesters who were ignored by everyone.
If I was an elected leader in Virginia Beach, I could do that math. Thousands upon thousands of happy voters or a dozen angry ones...guess who wins?
Roll Tide!
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 5:45 pm.
Compare that to the pitiful group of angry uninformed protesters who were ignored by everyone.
If I was an elected leader in Virginia Beach, I could do that math. Thousands upon thousands of happy voters or a dozen angry ones...guess who wins?
Roll Tide!
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 5:45 pm.
but either they are uninformed or they are deliberately ignoring facts and realities. As I've already pointed out to your earlier, our roads are heavily subsidized.
And while I won't deny that the Tide will require subsidies, as I've also shown elsewhere rail in this country on average requires fewer subsidies than buses do. But just to review, on average in this country LRT costs 60 cents per pax/mile and the riders pay 28.17% of that amount. A ride on a bus costs 90 cents and the rider pays 26.72% of that.
So if everyone is really looking out for their tax dollars, then opposing light rail is the wrong thing to be doing. Unless of course as a taxpayer you actually prefer paying 66 cents per mile for the bus instead of 43 cents for LRT.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 1:56 pm.
And while I won't deny that the Tide will require subsidies, as I've also shown elsewhere rail in this country on average requires fewer subsidies than buses do. But just to review, on average in this country LRT costs 60 cents per pax/mile and the riders pay 28.17% of that amount. A ride on a bus costs 90 cents and the rider pays 26.72% of that.
So if everyone is really looking out for their tax dollars, then opposing light rail is the wrong thing to be doing. Unless of course as a taxpayer you actually prefer paying 66 cents per mile for the bus instead of 43 cents for LRT.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 1:56 pm.
In 1986 Portland, Oregon started out with one 15 mile long light rail line that many people also said went no where. Today they have 4 light rail lines and 52.6 miles of track. And they're still expanding.
They also have a streetcar that goes 4 miles, also currently being expanded, as well as a 15 mile commuter rail line.
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Submitted by phrase on Fri, 08/19/2011 at 7:13 am.
They also have a streetcar that goes 4 miles, also currently being expanded, as well as a 15 mile commuter rail line.
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Submitted by phrase on Fri, 08/19/2011 at 7:13 am.
Because many people are not happy unless they are unhappy. What a bunch of fools, protesting light rail.
Thank God people with vision run cities instead of whiners and complainers. Otherwise, we'd still be living in caves.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 2:02 pm.
Thank God people with vision run cities instead of whiners and complainers. Otherwise, we'd still be living in caves.
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Submitted by AlanB on Sat, 08/20/2011 at 2:02 pm.
It went Billions over budget, had a collapse that killed someone; yet we still build more highways in this country. Guess those supporting & building highways have no vision either and have gone blind now, based upon your standards.
So clearly we should stop building more highways and rail projects because they both go overbudget, are poorly planned, and our leaders have no vision.
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Submitted by markk33831 on Fri, 08/19/2011 at 7:42 am.
So clearly we should stop building more highways and rail projects because they both go overbudget, are poorly planned, and our leaders have no vision.
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Submitted by markk33831 on Fri, 08/19/2011 at 7:42 am.
The maintenance and up keep of our interstate highways and airports cost taxpayers much, much more than this and don't operate as quietly or efficiently. Do you complain about those too? When Eisenhower's interstate highway system was being built there were all kinds of problems to start. When it was finally finished it was decades late and it cost over 5 times what was originally estimated and no money was allocated for maintenance and up keep. Where are the howls about that?
There are problems with Norfolk's LRT system, but they aren't anything that can't be worked out when the system is expanded. At a $1.50 per trip, it's a steal: people burn that much in fuel idling in traffic getting in and out of Norfolk.
There are problems with Norfolk's LRT system, but they aren't anything that can't be worked out when the system is expanded. At a $1.50 per trip, it's a steal: people burn that much in fuel idling in traffic getting in and out of Norfolk.
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