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Tuesday, December 27, 2011
Comments by People on Ron Paul
Posted by GwNorth
Dec 27 2011 - 2:28pm
Actually Ron Pauls concern is a Police State wherein a Government in charge of the police.
His solution is to privatize Police forces allowing the Corporation those same powers which would operate without any restrictions by the Government. He has no problems with EXXON spying on its employees. He has a problem with the Government doing the same.
Remember that all those rights as enumerated by the Constitution are limits prescribed against the power of Government. None of them limit a Corporation. Under a Ron Paul, if a Corporation stated NO MUSLIM could have a job with their firm then That would be fine.
Under Ron Paul if the Corporation insisted on drug testing every employee or strip searching them as they entered their premises, then that would be their right and the Government would not interfere.
It is still tyranny he supports . Now some might argue that this "Tyranny of Wealth" already exists in the United States of America and these "Rights" little more then illusion anyways. This not due to the prescence oif Government. It is due to a Government that has been coopted by the very same people Ron Paul wishes to have yet more power.
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Posted by GwNorth
Dec 27 2011 - 7:10pm
Another of those "The Free Market fixes" all types.
One more time. In 1890 private police forces were the norm. People could quit if they did not like the choices offered by the Company they worked for and simply ended up with worse choices.
I have never seena group of people as deluded as the Libertarians who buy into this nonsensee that if Government out of the equation private enterprise would suddenly value its employees and compete for their labor.
The notion is ludicrous.
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Posted by pjd412
Dec 27 2011 - 12:24pm
Keynsian economics by themselves have nothing to do with the current state of the US economy.
And while reforms are needed, do you really want to throw the FDA baby out with the bathwater? Ever read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?
And likewise, the FDA has nothing to do with the high costs of healthcare or drugs. The high cost of medical care in the US is due to the uniquely USAn sysatem of completely unregulated private, often profit-driven medical services and near-unregulated financing of those services, in spite of medicine being, like other vital public services, a natural monopoly where regulation and cost-controls are always called for.
I find it very disturbing that the ghost of Ayn Rand seems to be stalking so many people who call themselves "progressive".
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Posted by Cathy Mason
Dec 27 2011 - 5:46pm
Wikipedia: “Keynesian economics argues that private sector decisions sometimes lead to inefficient macroeconomic outcomes and, therefore, advocates active policy responses by the public sector, including monetary policy actions by the central bank and fiscal policy actions by the government to stabilize output over the business cycle.”
Although, as Wikipedia notes, the financial crisis of 2008-2009 led to a resurgence in interest in the government fiscal stimulus aspect of Keynesian theory, this was short lived. Instead, in the US, deficit reduction by sharply reducing government spending has been the mantra, and in Europe austerity measures are imposed on countries with struggling economies and the very idea the European Central Bank would help bail out those economies with stimulus spending is taboo.
It is a misconception that Keynesianism results by its very nature in turning us into “debt slaves”. The Fed stimulates the economy by spending – buying goods and services with dollars that go into the private sector economy – or lending, which creates bank deposits from which dollars can flow into the economy. The unscrupulous and unregulated lending practices of banks and credit card companies are what have created debt slaves. A moderate federal deficit – which is what we have currently – means the gov’t is priming the economic pump (whether enough is another question). And the gov’t of a country that issues its own currency, as the US does, can never be enslaved by debt, can never default or go bankrupt, despite the widespread misinformation spewed out by politicians of both parties and the corporate press. The US can’t default on its debt because it can always create more dollars to pay its creditors and can always regulate the money supply through taxation and raising interest rates if signs of inflation occur.
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Posted by GwNorth
Dec 27 2011 - 3:57pm
I think far to many Americans simply refuse to read their history. There was no FDA in 1890. There was no Corporate Welfare in 1890. There was no "Health care" or "welfare state".
There was no Federal reserve and US Currency was in fact based upon Gold. There was no income taxes.There was no FDA and Government was small passing little in the way of regulations.
If any believe that 1890 was a time with no Corporate power wherein the power was invested in the people at large they have a got a screw loose.
This was a terrible time for the Worker in the USA. The Wealthy were sitting on their Gold and money and the worker was being gunned down by privately hired Police forces. There were 10s of millions destitute and homeless. This was when the Robber Barons ruled supreme uninhibited by any Government regulation.
Now to that Gold Standard. In 1890 Governments and banks the world over were buying up gold. They could not mint currency unless they had gold. This lead to hoarding of the same and a shutdown of commerce. This shortage of Currency favored the already rich at the expense of the poor and saw a great shift in wealth upwards. It allowed those with great fortunes to gain control over even more assets wherein they became Monopolies.
It was due to this depression that Roosevelt introduced anti-trust laws in order to break up the powers of these conglomerates.The ending of that depression was due in great part to the discovery of Gold in the Klondike wherein tons of gold were hauled out of that area in a short period of time and circulated through the economy.
There are no more "Klondikes" to be discovered and unlike the Klondike where it was many poor people growing rich off staking a small claim, any further Gold finds will be owned and controlled by the Corporations.
Ron Paul supports all of those policies of the 1890s including no income taxes, gold based currency and little to no regulation on Industry. It baffles the mind to think people really think the working class were better off in 1890.
_________
Posted by Nixakliel
Dec 27 2011 - 2:08pm
I'll say again nearly all of Paul's 'bad points' [mainly on Econ policy & limited Gov't] are matched by Obama & Corp Dims, while almost none of Paul's good points IE: anti-war, anti US Empire, anti-Police-State, anti-bankster controlled FED, wants to end the notorious War on Drugs [which is actually a War on Black & Brown people] are matched by Obama & Corp Dims!
Real anti-war, anti-US empire, anti-police-state progressives can either vote for Paul knowing they got a real chance to win on the Anti-war front while knowing up-front they're going to have to fight against Paul on the Econ, Social Prog Front...,- Hope Rocky Anderson gets on the ballot & vote for him...,- Sit out the 2012 election for US Pres..., - OR They can delude themselves [again] & vote again for Mr Audacity {without} Hope & Change You Can NOT Believe In -&- Continue to Loose on BOTH Fronts!
His solution is to privatize Police forces allowing the Corporation those same powers which would operate without any restrictions by the Government. He has no problems with EXXON spying on its employees. He has a problem with the Government doing the same.
Remember that all those rights as enumerated by the Constitution are limits prescribed against the power of Government. None of them limit a Corporation. Under a Ron Paul, if a Corporation stated NO MUSLIM could have a job with their firm then That would be fine.
Under Ron Paul if the Corporation insisted on drug testing every employee or strip searching them as they entered their premises, then that would be their right and the Government would not interfere.
It is still tyranny he supports . Now some might argue that this "Tyranny of Wealth" already exists in the United States of America and these "Rights" little more then illusion anyways. This not due to the prescence oif Government. It is due to a Government that has been coopted by the very same people Ron Paul wishes to have yet more power.
_____________
One more time. In 1890 private police forces were the norm. People could quit if they did not like the choices offered by the Company they worked for and simply ended up with worse choices.
I have never seena group of people as deluded as the Libertarians who buy into this nonsensee that if Government out of the equation private enterprise would suddenly value its employees and compete for their labor.
The notion is ludicrous.
______________
And while reforms are needed, do you really want to throw the FDA baby out with the bathwater? Ever read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?
And likewise, the FDA has nothing to do with the high costs of healthcare or drugs. The high cost of medical care in the US is due to the uniquely USAn sysatem of completely unregulated private, often profit-driven medical services and near-unregulated financing of those services, in spite of medicine being, like other vital public services, a natural monopoly where regulation and cost-controls are always called for.
I find it very disturbing that the ghost of Ayn Rand seems to be stalking so many people who call themselves "progressive".
___________
Although, as Wikipedia notes, the financial crisis of 2008-2009 led to a resurgence in interest in the government fiscal stimulus aspect of Keynesian theory, this was short lived. Instead, in the US, deficit reduction by sharply reducing government spending has been the mantra, and in Europe austerity measures are imposed on countries with struggling economies and the very idea the European Central Bank would help bail out those economies with stimulus spending is taboo.
It is a misconception that Keynesianism results by its very nature in turning us into “debt slaves”. The Fed stimulates the economy by spending – buying goods and services with dollars that go into the private sector economy – or lending, which creates bank deposits from which dollars can flow into the economy. The unscrupulous and unregulated lending practices of banks and credit card companies are what have created debt slaves. A moderate federal deficit – which is what we have currently – means the gov’t is priming the economic pump (whether enough is another question). And the gov’t of a country that issues its own currency, as the US does, can never be enslaved by debt, can never default or go bankrupt, despite the widespread misinformation spewed out by politicians of both parties and the corporate press. The US can’t default on its debt because it can always create more dollars to pay its creditors and can always regulate the money supply through taxation and raising interest rates if signs of inflation occur.
______________
There was no Federal reserve and US Currency was in fact based upon Gold. There was no income taxes.There was no FDA and Government was small passing little in the way of regulations.
If any believe that 1890 was a time with no Corporate power wherein the power was invested in the people at large they have a got a screw loose.
This was a terrible time for the Worker in the USA. The Wealthy were sitting on their Gold and money and the worker was being gunned down by privately hired Police forces. There were 10s of millions destitute and homeless. This was when the Robber Barons ruled supreme uninhibited by any Government regulation.
Now to that Gold Standard. In 1890 Governments and banks the world over were buying up gold. They could not mint currency unless they had gold. This lead to hoarding of the same and a shutdown of commerce. This shortage of Currency favored the already rich at the expense of the poor and saw a great shift in wealth upwards. It allowed those with great fortunes to gain control over even more assets wherein they became Monopolies.
It was due to this depression that Roosevelt introduced anti-trust laws in order to break up the powers of these conglomerates.The ending of that depression was due in great part to the discovery of Gold in the Klondike wherein tons of gold were hauled out of that area in a short period of time and circulated through the economy.
There are no more "Klondikes" to be discovered and unlike the Klondike where it was many poor people growing rich off staking a small claim, any further Gold finds will be owned and controlled by the Corporations.
Ron Paul supports all of those policies of the 1890s including no income taxes, gold based currency and little to no regulation on Industry. It baffles the mind to think people really think the working class were better off in 1890.
_________
Real anti-war, anti-US empire, anti-police-state progressives can either vote for Paul knowing they got a real chance to win on the Anti-war front while knowing up-front they're going to have to fight against Paul on the Econ, Social Prog Front...,- Hope Rocky Anderson gets on the ballot & vote for him...,- Sit out the 2012 election for US Pres..., - OR They can delude themselves [again] & vote again for Mr Audacity {without} Hope & Change You Can NOT Believe In -&- Continue to Loose on BOTH Fronts!