Wednesday, April 23, 2008

A Shriner Freemason admits to worshipping Lucifer (A Must See)




Crossbearer.net At the Southeastern Shriners Convention in Chattanooga TN, this Shriner loosely claims to be Lucifer, a teaching by the Lodge that Lucifer is "good!" We were physically threatened by the Shriners and one sprayed Muriatic acid on one of us during the event. Masons and Shriners Repent! Only Jesus is Worshipful Master!


______________________


Masonry and Witchcraft













_______________

Here's my Response to a Person who is a skeptic:


From http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=41369.0


The skeptic: What the poster of that video clearly doesn't understand (and apparently neither did the person being interviewed, or at least not coherently) is that the very NAME Lucifer MEANS "bringer of light", and is analogous to Prometheus, who gave to humanity the gift of fire, without which humanity would never have arisen from a savage state.

A Response: I do understand what I posted and what I know about Lucifer. It's funny that this person makes a bunch of assumptions. It's interesting that this person is accurate to outline that Lucifer has pagan origins. Now, Lucifer means light bearer. It's not exactly equated to Prometheus. Therefore, Lucifer has nothing to do with Prometheus as a person at all. As for the true light giver, it didn't came from a mythical false god like Prometheus. It's by the true God alone. It may be analogous, but Lucifer isn't Prometheus at all. What Lucifer actually was to pagan cultures like ancient Rome was the planet Venus. In the conversation, the Mason wasn't talking about Venus or Prometheus, but about the biblical Lucifer. The reason is that both men are having a religious discussion. The Mason claims to be a Christian. Now, Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is blatantly given a negative connotation and criticized for its evil. Lucifer was falling into the nations was cited in Isaiah.



The skeptic: The problem with Christian Fundies is that they take things they don't understand out of context and twist it to fit a theology that has been corrupted by the forces of oppression. Instead of seeing the analogies between different faiths, they allow themselves to be deceived by the surface differences into regarding all other religions as false, rather than another piece of the ineffable and unknowable whole of the Creator.


My Response: For a person who claims to have tolerance, he makes potent stereotypes about people. Now, many conservative Christians know purely about Freemasonry and their dogma. They cite quotes from Freemasons all of the time. For example, Albert Pike is quoted as supporting telling lies into the Blue Lodge in order to decieve them. Here's Albert Pike's own words on this subject:

"...Masonry, like all the religions, all Mysteries, Hermetiscism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of it's symbols to mislead those who deserve to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity. The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar*.
So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray..."(Morals and Dogma Pages 104-105)



I have quotes of this. I have quotes of Freemasons admitting to seeking a new order in the world and the promotion of the Kabbala. Not, this isn't using out of context quotes or fitting a theology for a purposes. That's reality and facts. Corrupted?? The Bible has been preserved for thousands of years. One example is the Massoretic text and the Textus Receptus are respected sources. No one is blind to see differences of religious. Although, people have a right to reject Ecumencialism and an One world religious philosophies. In other words, there are moral absolutes and some religions are false. Scientology is false, Mormonism wasn't created by the apostles, and cults do exist. I hope this person doesn't agree that all monotheistic religions are fine. Also, learning differences is fine. To disregard differences and just compromise your belief system is just as silly as calling all religions as equivalent to each other. The Creator isn't divided into parts. The Creator is the whole Creator. He's God Almighty and he doesn't need false religions to validate himself at all.



Skeptic: Remember the parable of the elephant.

Response: I hope you remember this video and the parables of Jesus Christ. Thanks for getting me apt. I'm apt to respond.

By Timothy



_____________________________________________



Founding Fathers Speak Out Against Freemasonry

John Quincy Adams, The Sixth President of The United States said: "I am prepared to complete the demonstration before God and man, that the Masonic oaths, obligations and penalties, cannot, by any possibility, be reconciled to the laws of morality, of Christianity, or of the land." J.Q. Adam's letter to Ed. Livingston.

Samuel Adams, The Father of the Revolution said: "I am decidedly opposed to all secret societies whatever!"

John Hancock, President of the Continental Congress said: "I am opposed to all secret societies."

James Madison, The Fourth President of the United States said: "From the number and character of those who now support the charges against Freemasonry, I cannot doubt that it is at least susceptible of abuse, outweighing any advantages promised by its patrons."

----------------------------------

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put. darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20

"For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places." Ephesians 6:12.


42 comments:

Anonymous said...

That guy is an ass clown.

Anonymous said...

I have a feeling there is more to that video than you put on the internet.

Timothy said...

I hope so, because it can reveal more about many of the deluded followers of Freemasonry. Actually, this video is from a Christian ministry group that disagrees with Freemasonry. It isn't from me. I disagree with Freemasonry for many reasons though. In this day and age more folks are waking up. I like because we need to expose the Bohemian Grove (where some perform sick rituals), Masonry, etc. The truth can't be stopped now.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

Also, this video shows the whole incident as recorded by the Christian group. It's apparent what the Masons said and what many Masons worship. You need to realize that.

By Timothy

BORNFR33 said...

Well done Timothy, just brilliant. I you want to know the truth about the evil Freekmasons, then just search for "Joe Stirling"

Timothy said...

Thank BORNFR33 for the encouragement. The video says it all.

By Timothy

Anonymous said...

I am so disturbed that you are allowing the propagation of this type of junk.

Masons are not satanic. Anyone who has ever seen a funeral service that they were involved with would know.

If you have ever seen a Shriner (Shriner burn hospitals and Crippled children hospitals) you have seen a Mason. In order to be a Shriner, you MUST be a Mason.

Before you pass on garbage, get facts straight.

Timothy said...

I knew a person like you would respond like that in half truths and lies.


By Timothy

Timothy said...

I've responded to Masons for almost 10 years in debates, so you are no exception.

Masons are deceptive and Satanic by using lies on its lower deception. Many of them claim to accept godhood like Manly P. Hall and others. Masons have deaths oaths, praise false gods, and promote the new order of the ages. I have quote after quote backing up these words.

A funeral service doesn't prove whether a group is legitimate or not. You know this. The mob can have a funeral. Freemasonry use aims to cover up their unbiblical doctrines.

I don't show garbage on this issue. You show ad-hominem like usually. You pro-Masons are angry that the truth is coming out that Masons accept the occult and believe in swearing death oaths in their pagan-related rituals, which is anti-Christian.

I've got my facts straight. You need to get your facts straight.

Timothy said...

You don't offer a refutation, but ad hominem attacks.

As for me, I list fact after fact about some Masons praise Lucifer/Satan in a video, and other sources, how Masonry teaches lies in their Blue Lodge members, and how one Mason admits that Masonry isn't Christianity.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

I won't give into compromise and I won't give up.

Timothy said...

Masons praise the false god of JAH-BUL-ON in the Royal Arch degree. They also embrace the pagan obelisk, which relates to sun worship. Masons embrace the occult Kabbalah and other parts of the Mystery Religion.

Timothy said...

There is nothing wrong with helping people in hospitals. Shriners have been caught in sex scandals for years. Shriner swear an oath to Allah and Muhammad, which is anti-Christian. I already realize that you must be a Mason to be a Shriner.

Anonymous said...

I think there are 2 likely explanations for that clip:

1. Masons worship Satan. This worship is kept so secret that they tell none of their members unless they are elderly and apparently unable to follow a conversation. They also tell no-one outside the organisation, except people who hang around outside their meetings with video cameras.

(I know that their rank and file members know nothing about Satan worship, because I know many masons, most of whom are Christian)

2. The man in the clip is senile.

I'd suggest that the second explanation is more likely. It's also possible that the video is faked, but I see no evidence of blatant deceit here, so I'll ignore that possibility.

So let's assume that the man is probably senile.

Sadly, that forces us to conclude that either (a) the interviewer is taking advantage of the mentally handicapped, or (b) he's recklessly indifferent to the mental health of his interviewee in circumstances when he should have known better.

Either way, even if the masons DO worship Satan, the morally repugnant person in that clip is not the one talking about Lucifer. It's the person internationally lampooning a defenceless and mentally handicapped old man.

Anonymous said...

Also, the description of the video is wrong.

The Mason does not "admit to worshipping Lucifer". He says that he IS Lucifer.

What that proves exactly is beyond me. That Lucifer is an elderly man with a funny hat?

Timothy said...

The man in the video says that Lucifer is light thereby he's praising Lucifer. He also calls himself Lucifer too as you say. You skeptics omit that Masons Manly P. Hall, and other praise Lucifer. Lucifer to Masonry is a being of light, but the Bible is clear that Lucifer is Satan. You know this, but want to use a non sequittur when it doesn't work. We know that Masonry embrace the Kabbalah and the occult. We know that Masonry uses death oaths, and that Masonry uses deception in the Blue Lodge. Being direct is easy in this affair since real information about the real life is abundant and transparent. This video proves that Masonry is tied to some praising Lucifer. I praise God instead.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

I'm still here.

Timothy said...

The interview isn't lampooning or decieving the older Shriner. He's just asking the man a direct question. This link certainly have driven people like you, which is why I've shown sources here to back up my views on Freemasonry. The man doesn't look senile to me, but he looks like he's trapped in an apparent deceptive group.

The older man isn't handicapped and these tactics by you skeptics are getting old.

Freemasonry have death oaths, deception, pagan ideas, and other doctrines that are contrary to authentic morality and authentic spirituality. These facts are pieces of information that you can never ever refute at all. I won't back down at all from my premise on Freemasonry.

Masonry isn't Christianity, so a real Christian should never join Freemasonry at all. Some people join it and don't know its total doctrine. Swearing a death oath and calling a man Worshipful Master are against the commandments of Jesus Christ explicitly. There is no middle man on that point.

So, instead of being deciever, you skeptics need to wake up.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

The truth is out and I won't back down at all.

Timothy said...

Yet, you skeptics are right on one thing. It's not accurate to generalize every Mason as a Devil worshipper or wanting to rule the world.

Steve said...

You must excuse me, but the discussion has me intrigued. If you don't mind, I'd like to debate it a little bit. As this is your blog I will happily shut up and go away if you're not interested in talking about it. But assuming that you'd like to engage a bit with me on this…

Firstly, let's define what the debate is. My point is twofold:

1. This clip does not prove that Masons worship Satan. In fact, it proves absolutely nothing about Masons.

2. If anything, this clip shows a moral failing on the part of the interviewer, because he is exploiting a man with (I allege) apparent mental problems.

My point is not that you should change your opinion about Masons. While I don't agree with your opinion, that would be a very long conversation, so let's focus just on what's on your blog - namely, the clip. This means that comments from Manly P Hall, Albert Pike or anyone else is irrelevant. We are only talking about this clip.

Before I continue to outline my arguments, I should apologise for my earlier flippant comments - they are more inflammatory than useful.

In any event, my reasoning is this:
* What the man admits is that he is Lucifer, and that Lucifer is the bringer of light and goodness.
* Anyone who thinks that they're Lucifer is clearly insane.
* There is other evidence that should alert us to a mental problem (apart from him thinking that he's an immortal being from the beginning of time). Such as his delayed reaction time, his repeated non-sequiturs ("Have you ever been called 'Worshipful Master'?" "No, because I've been working") and his apparent inability to coherently string his responses together into something that makes sense.
* Insane people aren't reliable witnesses.
* Therefore we should ignore his evidence.
* Therefore this clip proves nothing.

This brings me to my second point:

* We know the man's insane.
* The interviewer should also have known he was insane.
* It is morally wrong to poke fun of or otherwise take advantage of the defenceless. It doesn't matter what your point is - the ends do not justify the means.
* I define "taking advantage" to include "setting someone up to embarrass themselves or their friends when it's obvious that they do not have the capacity to understand what they're doing"
* The clip is taking advantage of the old man because it's using his own mental handicap against both him, and an organisation that he's involved in.
* I think the clip also pokes fun of him, because what he says is obviously ridiculous. He's not Lucifer.
* Therefore, the interviewer is morally in the wrong.

Oh one last thing, while I do apologise for my earlier flippant tone, I would appreciate it if you don't refer to me as "you skeptics". I am a person, my name is Steve.

Cheers,

Steve

Timothy said...

Thanks for your words.



Now here is my response:

1. This clip does prove that many Masons praise Lucifer and the concept of Lucifer. I didn't say every Mason worship Lucifer, but some do.

2. The interviewer didn't express a moral failing. He just asked the Shriner a simple question. He isn't exploiting the man since the Shriner could of easily walked away. He doesn't seem to have mental problems, but he does seem naive.

You are correct that you comment won't change my views on Masons. For over 10 years, I've gathered source after sources from Masons and other showing their true composition of their organization. Freemasonry accept death oaths, the Kabbalah, Universialism, gender discrimination, and the occult. You can't refute that at all.

I'm focusing on the clip, but Masonry deals with the clip. Henceforth, it's completely legitimate to talk about that and the clip at the same time precisely. The comments from Manly P. Hall and Pike are relevant since people like you want to either deny their existence or omit them for the sake of support of the Fraternity. I don't.

You apologize for inflammatory comments and I can respect that.

Ok, so you're premise is that since this man is certainly naive and thinks that he's Lucifer then that disregards all evidence that some Masons don't worship Lucifer. This is the premise of your argument. I disagree with that premise, because other Freemasons have praised Lucifer before. I've listed their quotes for years and years too especially Hall and Eliphas Levi (who was a Freemason and occultist). Levi inspired Albert Pike. These are realible witnesses.

The interviewer by my estimation didn't poke fun at him or took advantage of him. He asked him a question and the interviewer exposed how Masonry is contrary to true Christianity (as expressed in many circles). You are a skeptic in the since you think that Masonry is comptable with Christianity, which it isn't. I will call you Seve since you identified your name. Of course, the man isn't Lucifer.

You might be from Australia or UK by the way you write your words with "Cheers."

By Timothy

Timothy said...

Lucifer isn't an immortal being. He's a created entity just like us humans.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

Not to mention that Masonry has a relationship and similarities with Wicca witchcraft as the video proves in this link.


YOu can't refute that.

By Timothy

Steve said...

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your response - and well spotted, I am Australian. You must know a few Aussies to pick that up - I didn't realise I was giving myself away.

1. You haven't accurately stated my premise. My premise is not that because the man is insane/naïve, that disregards all evidence that some Masons worship Lucifer. My premise is that because the man is insane/naïve, that disregards this piece of evidence.

2. It's not logical to use other evidence of your point to prove that this evidence is reliable. Each piece of evidence must be considered individually - the existence of other, valid evidence does not of itself make this evidence valid.

I'll give an analogy - lets say there are two pieces of evidence in a murder case: fingerprints at the scene of the crime, and a Witness saying that he heard the murderer confess after the incident. The Judge needs to decide whether or not he believes the Witness regardless of what the fingerprints prove. The judge cannot say: "I think the witness is good evidence because the fingerprints are good evidence" - the fingerprints don't prove whether the witness is lying or not. The judge must listen to the witness, ignoring the existence of the fingerprints, and at the end of the case he may say: "The witness is lying, but the fingerprints are accurate".

That's why you can't rely on Manly Hall or any anyone else when we're looking at the clip. Manly Hall and Albert Pike might be brilliant evidence against Masonry in general, but they shed no light on the question of whether this clip has any probative value.

3. It seems our key disagreement here is whether the man is insane or naïve. So let's break it down a bit: First - do you agree that if this man is insane, the clip has no value as evidence against the Masons?

Timothy said...

I will respond in due time.

By Timothy

ken said...

ok so you will delete this i'm sure.. or edit it.. but.. you guys are the biggest bunch of idiots i have ever seen.. half truths, mis- representations and just plain silly talk.. I just get a kick out of the constant harping on really insignificant masonic traditions and a complete disregard for even a bit of truth... you should really get a life.. I can't change your mind.. it's too small. But i can say to anyone else that reads this garbage you put out.. think for yourself.. and before you cast stones at someone with reckless abandon, i pray that you ask God to save you before your soul is so wrecked with hate that it can never enter the kingdom of heaven... ( now that you can understand )

Ken said...

oh and before you dismiss me like you do every other person that calls you out.. let me say to you that I am a freemason.. a christian and a good man. masonry IS NOT A RELIGION ..nor does it EVER profess to be.. ALBERT PIKE has his opinion and it was a pretty good one but most often used out of context and his language , being a bit old and out dated, often leads simple minds to the wrong conclusions.. it is difficult to start a conversation when the two don't speak the same language.. so when you quote biblical teachings and compare it to masonic traditions, it is a bit like comparing spanish to latin.. often time the context is more important than the words..Lucifer does mean light giver.. you rbible tells you so.. crowley was a false freemason and a crazy man who wanted desperately to be accepted that he hijacked masonic traditions and impostered himself as an accepted brother when he was shunned and outcast.. . your video proves only that the shriner was PLAYING with the guy until he got fed up with the ignorant fool and walked away..

Timothy said...

Ken, once again you're proven to be a liar.

Timothy said...

My Response to Ken Part 1:

You are surely wrong, because I will not edit or delete your words. You have the right of free speech here and now much of the world will see your words and my rebuttal. You are a liar since I’m not an idiots and others in the world aren’t idiots either. You Masons like usual use ad hominem attacks when you don’t get your way. It’s a proven fact that Pike said that Masonry is apart of the Mysteries and it’s a fact that Masonry have keen similarities with the Wiccan religion. I haven’t shown half truths, misrepresentations, and silly talk at all about Masonry. What I’ve shown is source after source proving their doctrines are against Christianity, videos of ex-Masons denouncing the Lodge, and other examples of people waking up and really following God. Many Masonic traditions aren’t insignificant like saying a death oath in the Blue Lodge or drinking wine out of a human skull in the higher degrees (as exposed by Ed Decker and others). I already have a life. Why would you ask that question when you Mason obsess with me. I know why. It’s because my words exposing Freemasonry shown in the Internet, the streets, etc. have had their impact. You can’t stop the truth and yes you can’t change my mind. My mind isn’t small. I know more about the world, philosophy, economics, history, anthropology, science, mathematics, geography, etc. than you think I do. I don’t put out garbage which is another lie you’ve made. I put out accurate information about politics and people have a right to think for themselves. I don’t cast stones against anyone but Masonry falsely calls themselves a cornerstone when God is the true cornerstone. I don’t have hate against anyone. You don’t know the meaning of hate. Dissent that’s legitimate is never hate. It’s common sense and love. Who are you to tell whether I will enter the Kingdom of God or not. That’s God’s job, not yours. Once again, you’re a hypocrite by claiming I throw stones when you throw stones against me. I understand fully about myself.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

The response to ken Part 2:

I dismiss you, because you are a big liar. People have a right to call people out, but you need to understand that just because a person calls out another doesn’t mean that person is right. I know you’re a Freemason by the tone of your words. You are certainly a deceived Christian since Masonic oaths, rituals, and doctrines violate the New Testament on many levels. Masonry is a Theistic religion. Masonry have rituals, an altar, prayer is shown, funerals are done, there is occult communion type rituals in higher degrees according to Ed Decker, there is a profession of a belief in God, etc. making Freemasonry a Religion. You can’t fool me. As Mackey states: "The religion of Masonry is pure theism." He boasts, "The truth is that Masonry is undoubtedly a religious institution . . . which, handed down through a long succession of ages from that ancient priesthood who first taught it, embraces the great tenets of the existence of God and the immortality of the soul."[Albert G. Mackey, , p. 95]. In his he restates this: "The Religious Doctrines of Freemasonry are very simple and self evident. They are darkened by no perplexities of sectarian theology but stand out in broad light, intelligible and acceptable by all minds, for they ask only for a belief in God and in the immortality of the soul." (Albert G. Mackey, , p. 731). I trust high level Freemason Albert Mackey over you. Albert Pike’s words are very authoritative in the Scottish Rite Freemason as his book are recommended for reading in the Lodges of the Scottish Rite. Real people don’t put his words out of context. I have a right to use Biblical references and other sources to make a just point about the occult nature of Freemasonry. Context is fine with me, but not obfuscating the essence of the true meaning of words revolving the essence of the Lodge. Lucifer means light bearer or Venus as the Scriptures say. Lucifer is a defeated foe and Jesus Christ defeated Lucifer. Crowley was a real Freemason and a member of the Masonic Golden Dawn. The Golden Dawn was Masonic since its founders were Freemasons. Just because Crowley was apart of European Masonry doesn’t mean that he wasn’t a Mason. Also, occultists Eliphas Levi and others were Freemasons. Levi wrote about ceremonial magic constantly. Crowley was shunned by people, but he was accepted by much of the New Age movement and the occult world. The video proves deceiver that some Masons praise Lucifer. Also, the other video proves that Masonry have similarities with Wiccan. I will always oppose Masonry and all occult Secret Societies forever. Nothing is going to change that at all.

By Timothy

Timothy said...

My Response to Steve:

Yes, it’s easy to understand that you’re Australian by the way that you type your words.

This evidence proves that some Masons worship or praise Lucifer. This man’s actions doesn’t necessarily define him as insane. Thereby by deduction, I don’t conceive this source as trivial. There are plenty of other sources that prove that some Masons (not every Mason) praise or worship Lucifer/Satan.

I fundamentally disagree with you on this point. Judging evidence individually is fine and concrete in any evaluation. Yet, when individual evidence is deemed appropriate, when the evidence is combined. It is a true and authentic means to decipher the truth. That evidence is valid if multiple sources are accurate.

You don’t have to ignore all evidence to make a decision. You can judge evaluate all pieces of information as a whole. You can disregard faulty evidence and accept the transparent or real piece of evidence. In this example, you can easily gather as much information as possible to develop a true judgment.

Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike are very important in evaluating Masonry in general. The reason is that all Scottish Rite Masons are encouraged to read his literature. Also, Pike was a major creator of much of the rituals pertaining to the composition of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. Pike and Hall are brilliant evidence against Masonry in general since these men are high level Masons with credibility in outlining the real aims of Masonry. As Pike said, Masonry relates to the Mysteries and Blue Lodge members are deceived intentionally by higher up Masons to limit the truth about the whole course of the Masonic Lodge.

I believe this man is naïve not insane. If hypothetically, this man is insane, he can still theoretically have evidence against Masonry. The reason is that if this man said something that was backed up by multiple, credible sources about Masonry, then his sayings have merit. You should never take one man at face value, but a myriad of other Masonic sources saying the same thing have weight in order to define Masonry in terms of dissent


By Timothy

Timothy said...

Ken, Just because of your words, I will add my response in my Scribd.com article and edit it more and more with sources to refute you. I wasn't going to do this, but you since you claim that we're idoits, I will love to prove you wrong.

By Timothy.

Timothy said...

That's the truth.

Anonymous said...

bookmarked!!, I love your site!

Also visit my web blog :: diets that work for women

Anonymous said...

Having read this I believed it was extremely informative.

I appreciate you spending some time and energy to put this content together.
I once again find myself personally spending way too much time both reading and posting comments.
But so what, it was still worthwhile!

my web site speakeasy

Hans-Georg Lundahl said...

Comment 37 (make a multiplication table of that prime, will you, it may serve ...):

"only Jesus is worshipful master"

Only Jesus deserves the divine worship and is master to disciples, but I hardly think he likes the title "worshipful master".

"Grand architect of the universe" is not among Christ's titles, and even if he showed architectonic skills as a carpenter, we can see why.

That nincompoop Nimrod had elevanted himself to "grand architect" at the building of the Tower of Babel, and he had not counted the resources.* So, calling Jesus Christ "grand archiect" might come through as calling him stupid.

*Luke 14:[28] For which of you having a mind to build a tower, doth not first sit down, and reckon the charges that are necessary, whether he have wherewithal to finish it: [29] Lest, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that see it begin to mock him, [30] Saying: This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Hans-Georg Lundahl said...

As to the context of the words, I would rather be mocked now for not counting the resources when trying my life at monastic living earlier (up to 2000), than be mocked eternally for same thing, like will be the fate of that other (or possibly same) big stupid, the king who goes off to Harmageddon without counting his resources.

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...

Hmmm. I shall read in greater detail later; and respond then. Going for a cycle with my honey! ;-)
&~^~&

Andrea Muhrrteyn said...

Sorry for delay. Personally I don't really care whom anyone worships, or say they worship; whether it be lucifer, god, jellybeans, trees, allah, or whatever.

My concepts of good and evil are different than most religions.

I think anyone who (a) procreates and consumes below carrying capacity limits; and (b) engages in honest fully informed consenting acts; and allows others to do the same; (c) avoiding violence, unless provoked or justified within the above principles; is a good person.

I think anyone who (a) procreates and consumes above carrying capacity limits; and/or (b) engages in withholding, manipulation or deception to deliberately obstruct and avoids engaging in effort to resolve disagreements and problems through consenting acts; (c) engages in unjustified violence, within context of aforementioned principles; is less than good (I don't like the word 'evil'); or more accurately ecologically illiterate, ignorant of the golden rule; or got ego attachment to fundamentalist un-examined principles, issues.

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 14:12 is the only mention I can find of Lucifer in the KJV bible and on the Vaticans online reference site as well as KJV site, neither refer to Lucifer as Satan but the King of Babylon at that time. Cant spell his name but the vaticans site lists it. Not disagreeing that Masons worship the darkest forces known to man, but this is the case. I find it interesting that gnostics believe the true Alpha and Omega created an imperfect being called the Demiurge who created more, they created man thus are "architects" because it was through manipulation instead of creation. Gnistics worship the true source and not the architect, masons worship the architect. "Free" masons call themselves that, ive read, because they see themselves as free from obligation, service to or oversight from ANY being. Essentially the true ideals of Satanism, though i dont see masonry as any better. I believe the supposed Illuminati to be nothing more than a mass or secret societies lying to people and using their honest want to be a part of something bigger qgainst them through lies. This mass of societies is controlled by none other than fat, lazy, hateful and selfish world bankers that took over our federal reserve and now our military. People are waking up though, they are in for a very rude awakening. I know people in the military and they arent down with it. In fact the green berets formally issued a threat to the feds, saying they will defect and stand with the constitution in case of martial law. Same with many other organizations...

Anonymous said...

The ancient Greeks and Romans were only aware of five planets, and they named them after their gods (Aphrodite to the Greeks, Venus to the Romans). Venus is the brightest from earth, and so was named for the godess of beauty just as the angry red planet, mars, was named for the Roman god of war..... So it wasnt named Lucifer. But theres this...

Phosphorus (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros), a name meaning "Light-Bringer", is the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance. Φαοσφόρος (Phaosphoros) and Φαεσφόρος (Phaesphoros) are forms of the same name in some Greek dialects.

Another Greek name for the Morning Star is Heosphoros (Greek Ἑωσφόρος Heōsphoros), which means "Dawn-Bringer". The form Eosphorus is sometimes met in English, as if from Ἠωσφόρος (Ēōsphoros), which is not actually found in Greek literature,[1] but would be the form that Ἑωσφόρος would have in some dialects. As an adjective, the Greek word φωσφόρος is applied in the sense of "light-bringing" to, for instance, the dawn, the god Dionysos, pine torches, the day; and in the sense of "torch-bearing" as an epithet of several god and goddesses, especially Hecate but also of Artemis/Diana and Hephaestus.[2]

The Latin word lucifer, corresponding to Greek φωσφόρος, was used as a name for the morning star and thus appeared in the Vulgate translation of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל (helel) - meaning Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one - in Isaiah 14:12, where the Septuagint Greek version uses, not φωσφόρος, but ἑωσφόρος. As a translation of the same Hebrew word the King James Version gave "Lucifer", a name often understood as a reference to Satan. Modern translations of the same passage render the Hebrew word instead as "morning star", "daystar", "shining one" or "shining star". In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is referred to as the morning star, but not as lucifer in Latin, nor as φωσφόρος in the original Greek text, which instead has ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς ὁ πρωϊνός, literally: the star the bright of the morning. In the Vulgate Latin text of 2 Peter 1:19 the word lucifer is used of the morning star in the phrase "until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts", the corresponding Greek word being φωσφόρος.

And Lucifer is from lux and ferre. Meaning light bringer. Its astronomical worship and represents certain archetypes of human ability. The whole satan agenda may be used by these societies but have yoy ever considered it may be yet another obscuring or farce they love so much? One to start a massive holy war? Thus depopulating much of the world? Im not here to debate, but really think....