Troy on many Issues

Right:

Without wishing to get bogged down with detail on refuting minor points here & there, etc. I am stating that for the time being, pending further investigation by myself & hopefully others like Eric & Craig into the complexities of this matter, I am reserving any further judgement of the murky dynamics of this matter for now.

As I stated above, I have not had access to any copies of the Babylonian Talmud, whether genuine or otherwise & so neither do I condone this work nor do I attribute to it all that is alleged.

My comments on this Polin woman, whatever her real first name is, still stand.

If my understanding is correct, the anti-Judaism, racially Jewish, Frankist Sabbateans are as anti-Talmudic as they are anti-Torah & this should be considered too in any honest evaluation of the "Talmudic Jews" controversy. They are however pro-Kabbalistic.

I would also like to restate that Hasidic Judaism is not a form of Orthodox Judaism & whether or not it is led by Sabbateans, this certainly seems to have been a possibility in its early days. Eric Phelps is correct in stating that Karaite Judaism is Torah-observing & Talmud-rejecting.

Eric's statement that Sephardi Jews are non-Talmudic may be correct, but I haven't independently verified that for myself yet. The following information would appear to be worth following up for sure though: "For religious purposes, the term Sephardim means all Jews who use a Sephardic style of liturgy, and therefore includes most Jews of Arabic and Persian background, whether or not they have any historical or ethnographic connection to the Iberian peninsula. Most of these communities (with some exceptions such as the Yemenites) do in fact use much the same religious ritual as the Sephardim proper and, like them, base their religious law on the Shulchan Aruch without the glosses of Moses Isserles. When used in this sense, "Sephardim" should be translated not as "Spanish Jews" but as "Jews of the Spanish rite". (In the same way, Ashkenazim means "Jews of the German rite", whether or not their families actually originate in Germany.)" [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardic_Jew...im_and_Mizrahim - See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulchan_Aruch & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Isserles for more background. I have to check on these myself.]

I have delayed responding as I have been bogged down with matters such as putting together presentations of evidence supporting our (IMO irrefutable by sound minds) thesis that Rome is the creator & spiritual controller of the New World Order agenda.

As can be found at:

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/view...=1853&start=240

- TS

http://troyspace2.wordpress.com/

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----- Original Message ----- From: troy space To: eric jon phelps Cc: craig oxley Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: BROTHER ERIC: IS MY UNDERSTANDING CORRECT ON YOUR TAKE ON ORTHODOX JEWS & HASSIDIC JEWS? Dear Brother Eric Please find below a post that I have just made at Craig's forum that addresses statements made by Craig, Henry Makow, yourself & Unhived Mind contributor, the mysterious "Antisionist". Also: which Jewish groups have survived as non-Talmudic Torah-observing Jews? Thank you - Brother Troy http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mi...5013&st=0&#last

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Re: BROTHER ERIC: IS MY UNDERSTANDING CORRECT ON YOUR TAKE ON ORTHODOX JEWS & HASSIDIC JEWS?‏ From:  Eric Phelps Sent:  03 December 2008 23:19:54 To:  troy space Dear Brother Troy, I was wrong on that point.  There are Orthodox Jews and then there is a sub-group of Orthodox Jews called Hasidic Jews.  Both groups believe the Oral Law as contained in the Babylonian Talmud to be on an equal level with the Mosaic Law and OT. The Karaite Jews and Sephardic Jews are Jewish groups who reject the Talumd and hold to the Torah alone. Sincerely in faith, Brother Eric

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RE: BROTHER ERIC: IS MY UNDERSTANDING CORRECT ON YOUR TAKE ON ORTHODOX JEWS & HASSIDIC JEWS?‏ From:  troy space Sent:  05 December 2008 01:05:52 To:  eric jon phelps Dear Brother Eric To your knowledge are there any Rabbis who are free of Talmudic indoctrination & are worthy inheritors to the tradition of Moses (even if rejectors of Christ & thus ultimately blasphemers)? Or are all of them the inheritors of the Babylonian Mystery Religion & is true Judaism left to non-rabbinic, Torah-observing, non-Talmudic Jews (including the Karaite & Sephardi Jews that you mention)? Can any Jews brought up in an Orthodox tradition be considered true Jews even? Is it possible to relate your understanding of the origin of the Talmud & Kabbalism & the relationship between the high priests of Babylon into Rome, with the development of Occult heresy among the Jews & how this became (presumably) the dominant camp within the Jewish religious world? Any thoughts on the Catholic Church's overt stance on Occultic Jews in the Middle Ages & on how this may or may not have changed behind closed doors into modern times is also welcome. I will post your response at various internet venues. In Christ - Brother Troy

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----- Original Message ----- From: troy space To: eric jon phelps Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:25 PM Subject: BROTHER ERIC: INTERESTING ARTICLE ON VERACITY OF COMMONLY CITED TALMUDIC QUOTES Dear Brother Eric You may find the following article to be interesting. I certainly have. It looks into most of the most controversial & extreme quotes attributed to the Talmud & was presumably posted at a Masonic site due to the sources referred to conflating Talmudism with Masonry. Interested in your thoughts. In Christ - Brother Troy http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/van_hyning.html

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Re: BROTHER ERIC: INTERESTING ARTICLE ON VERACITY OF COMMONLY CITED TALMUDIC QUOTES‏ From:  Eric Phelps Sent:  04 December 2008 23:09:05 To:  troy space Dear Brother Troy, I was personally told by a Jewish friend of mine that his rabbi said that the Talmud claimed that Jesus was a bastard and his mother a whore.  Those wicked passages exist and the man below [Troy's note: See the article at the URL in the email that I have posted above] is a liar. Brother Eric

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RE: JEWISH WRITINGS - ADDRESSED TO BROTHERS ERIC & NELSON‏ From:  troy space Sent:  05 December 2008 22:15:18 To:  nelson turner Cc:  eric jon phelps Dear Brother Nelson Thanks for your candid comments & thoughts. I have not read the Talmud in any shape or form either, but have read a refutation of points often cited by anti-Jewish hateful racists to tarnish the Jewish race as a whole. These Talmudic comments that refer to a Jesus do not seem to refer to Jesus of the Gospels in precise biographical detail. We can argue that that is because they are coded, but then that is an argument that the Roman Catholic Church also used to murder Jews & suppress their religious birthright. It could also be argued that the Protestant writers that you refer to were in no better position to judge than ourselves & may have been writing on hearsay. Now I would need quotes that satisfied me that they had read genuine translations of the Talmud to know for sure. However it is unclear from your statement that these writers were quoting passages critical of Jesus the Christ. This is something that we should address recognised, studied Jews on & attempt to get to the heart of the matter on. If we can get some authentic & verifiable Rabbis (as opposed to crypto-Sabbatean/crypto-Antijudaism Labor Zionists) who would be prepared to say on tape that the Talmudic passages most objected to are authentic in the most original forms of the Talmud, then we can safely say that we are not falling for an Anti-Jewish trap. At the moment due to my not having access to these copies of the Talmud & I cannot safely say that I am in a position to say that the objectionable, depraved &/or alledged Christ-blaspheming passages are either authentic or indeed referring to our Lord Jesus Christ. Brother Eric, I would appreciate your thoughts on my position here, as it stands & I would also request that if you feel that it is an important enough matter, that you attempt to consult & interview (for your show) various authorities on the matter that you feel that you can trust & who are prepared to be candid. I will post you a "debunking" response to the "debunking" article on these Talmudic passages, so that you are in a position to challenge the selected authorities in the most knowledgeable manner. Seriously, it's like being stuck between a rock & a hard place on this Jewish Occultism matter & is the source of some major sticking points in establishing a cohesive & scholarly position, rooted in integrity of intent. It is of the utmost importance to establish a thorough understanding of the dynamics between racially Jewish Occultists, racially-Jewish Torah-observers, the Roman Catholic Church & the true Body of Christ over the past two millennium. We need to find out where anti-Jewish propaganda ends & honest exposure of malevolent, murderous Occultism begins on the fringes of Jewish culture. Do I have any agreement on the urgency & importance of resolving these cloudy matters? ... In Christ - Brother Troy

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----- Original Message ----- From: troy space To: troy space Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: THIRD MAJOR NEW POST AT OUTLAW FORUM'S E.J.P. THREAD http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/view...=1853&start=240 blue Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 10 PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:41 pm The Babylonian Talmud is a written version of the oral law that had existed for centuries prior to it being written down. If as Phelps claims the Babylonian Talmud was a creation of Rome and by implication differed markedly from the Oral Law from which it was supposed to have been copied, don't you think that the jewish rabbis of the time would have noticed and exposed the fraud? This did not happen, therefore we must conclude that the Talmud represented the Oral law pretty accurately at the time that it was written. That Phelps is claiming the Babylonian Talmud is a creation of Rome and therefore not Jewish, or even Babylonian in origin makes me question Phelps's motives. I find it hard to believe that this could be a genuine mistake by Phelps rather than a deliberate attempt to shift the blame for the writing of the Talmud away from the Jews and onto the Vatican. [Note: This is followed by a very lengthy post of my own on Biblical prophecy, quoting some of Eric's email exchanges, Revelation & 1 John.]

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From: Eric Phelps To: troy space Subject: Re: THIRD MAJOR NEW POST AT OUTLAW FORUM'S E.J.P. THREAD Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 06:32:21 -0500 Dear Brother Troy, I have about had enough of the defense of that damnable Babylonian Talmud, the codified Oral Law of the Orthodox Jews who hate and kill Messianic Jews in Israel.  So I will be in contact with a few Jews who can quote from it, especially the sections that state that Jesus Christ is a bastard and his mother a whore. As far as rabbis of the past being in collusion with the papacy, check out Israel Zolli and his relationship with Pope Pius XII. Sincerely in faith, Brother Eric

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RE: THIRD MAJOR NEW POST AT OUTLAW FORUM'S E.J.P. THREAD‏ From:  troy space Sent:  05 December 2008 22:34:47 To:  eric jon phelps Dear Brother Eric I'm not sure whether or not you thought that I was defending the Talmud. If so, then I can only say that I've never read it in any shape or form - neither in an authentic copy or otherwise - & am not in a position to comment, as I also have not had the opportunity to discuss the ins & outs of the most contentious passages with anyone within a learned position within the Jewish world. I don't think that our attacker below was writing in defence of it either, he was attacking your position on Rome's creation of the Talmud. From what I know, it is Babylonian & Mystery Babylon begat the Church of Rome, but that is not a case in itself without more supporting evidence. The true nature & authenticity of the debated passages is what is at the heart of the matter here & how it affected Rome's position towards Jews in the Middle Ages & what the precise & verifiable nature of this relationship between these two streams of Occultism has been from 6th Century BC Babylon till today. Generalities & assertions must give way to thorough analysis of these matters & a dialogue with learned Jewish scholars who are prepared to stick their neck out. Hopefully you can understand my caution & motives in seeking lucidity on these murky matters. I discuss this more fully in my previous email response. - Brother Troy

 

 

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No such thing as a racial Jew. Not even according to the bible. http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhived_Mi...?showtopic=5112

Disagreed. We've been over this one before in length more than once. Rather than re-shoot "Groundhog Day" I'll direct readers too:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MI...showtopic=63790

http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MI...showtopic=65185

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Hasidic Jews are the ones who engage in ritua murder as prescribed by the Talmud and Kabbala. The way they hold the Talmud above the Old Testament, is very reminiscent of the Orthodox Jews Michael Hoffman criticizes in his latest book.

Completely false. As I stated above: "I would also like to restate that Hasidic Judaism is not a form of Orthodox Judaism & whether or not it is led by Sabbateans, this certainly seems to have been a possibility in its early days."

I'll also direct readers to the following for further research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism

"The founder of Hasidism, Israel ben Eliezer, also became known under the title of the "Master of the Good Name" (the Ba'al Shem Tov, abbreviated as the Besht). ... This democratization of Judaism attracted to the teachings of the Besht not only the common people, but also the scholars whom the rabbinical scholasticism and ascetic Kabbalah failed to satisfy."

"According to Besht, the essence of religion is in practice and not in reason. Theological learning and halakhic lore are of secondary importance, and are useful only when they serve as a means of producing an exalted religious mood. It is better to read books of moral instruction than to engage in the study of the casuistic Talmud and the rabbinical literature."

"In Hasidism, it is believed that the esoteric teachings of Kabbalah can be made understandable to everyone. This understanding is meant to help refine a person, as well as adding depth and vigor to one's ritual observation."

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Dear Brother Troy, I was wrong on that point.  There are Orthodox Jews and then there is a sub-group of Orthodox Jews called Hasidic Jews.  Both groups believe the Oral Law as contained in the Babylonian Talmud to be on an equal level with the Mosaic Law and OT. The Karaite Jews and Sephardic Jews are Jewish groups who reject the Talumd and hold to the Torah alone. Sincerely in faith, Brother Eric

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See that? Eric has it right. I was right and he was wrong. You forget soulinspiration that before I got woken up to the Jesuits by a good friend in the infowar who brought me to this site, I was totally into works exposing Zionism and Judaism and the Talmud. And for a while. So if you want to talk or argue about the Talmud with me, you will lose. I know enough about it to know how sick and perverted it is.

Completely false. You are both wrong on this point regarding Hasidic Judaism being Talmudic & Orthodox. See above. You also falsely imply in Jesuitical fashion that I am pro-Talmud. How many times do I have to tell you that I have never read a copy of it - whether authentic or otherwise?! So how cold I support it? This is a diversionary tactic par excellence! I posted the article that examines & refutes many of the more commonly alleged controversial quotes for the sake of balance & consideration, not for endorsement.

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The other true Israelite religion, that follows the Old testament and doesn't do what the Talmud does (turn it on its head and make the law of god of none effect as Jesus said in his rebuke of the Pharisees), is Christianity.

Disagreed! True Christianity is found in the New Testament, not the Old.

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Roman Catholicism ... is paganism. That is mystery Babylon.

Agreed, as I have always maintained. Revelation 17 & 18.

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And that is what the Jews adopted in exhile when they wrote their Talmud and kabbala

That is what SOME Heretical Jews adopted in exile. The Talmud & the Kabbalah I maintain were both created by the Babylonian Mysteries Priesthood which begat the Roman Catholic Church. The Talmud was created for the Heretical Jews as an excessively legalistic form of mental entrapment by which was intended to enslave the Jewish people. The Kabbalah on the other hand is the true religion of the inner-circle Occultists of Rome & their anti-Judaism, racially Jewish servants.

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This above quote was given to us from outlaw journalism by a guy named blue. He is showing his EXTREME IGNORANCE here.

Agreed.

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[TROY] I'm not sure whether or not you thought that I was defending the Talmud. If so, then I can only say that I've never read it in any shape or form - neither in an authentic copy or otherwise - & am not in a position to comment, as I also have not had the opportunity to discuss the ins & outs of the most contentious passages with anyone within a learned position within the Jewish world.

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[ANTISIONIST] He definitely is in a position to read the Talmud.

I stated that I wasn't in a position to comment, not that I wasn't in a position to read it. As in all of its forms it is a huge, multi-volume, quasi-encyclopedia, that is prohibitively expensive, even in CD-ROM form. There are plenty of inexpensive books about the Talmud, but that ain't the same thing is it?

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"As far as rabbis of the past being in collusion with the papacy, check out Israel Zolli and his relationship with Pope Pius XII." Bang on again, Eric. Way to take those Labour Zionists to task.

Hmmm. Eric is indeed bang on about Rabbinic collusion with Rome. However: Labor Zionists (giving Labor its more common American-influenced spelling - Question: Are you English? "Bang on" also seems to indicate this?) are essentially Secular & the political front of the Anti-Talmud Frankist Sabbateans.

So this is a confusingly unnecessary conflation of two False Judaic groups: Talmudic religious (Orthodox) Jews & crypto-Kabbalistic secular (Sabbatean) Jews.