http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=97109.0 Absolutely, Austrians actually want an end of legal tender laws, that government's role is simply to ensure that counterfeit doesn't occur. I'd go further, and suggest that only private courts, under common law, are capable, given that government have a vested interest. One must NOT forget, your cultish behavoir in face of debunking on a multitude of occasions in this thread alone, and your insanity in regards to allowing (BILLIONS) of people to die, to follow the "Laws of Von Mises" is nothing short of pure Selfishness, USERY and GENOCIDAL MURDER.Revolt256's Response are Bold One must remember, that a paper greenback, will only be accepted by the market, by force, via forceful legal tender laws. There is no way in the world that anything other than force would get anybody to value paper above gold and silver. It is imoral to devalue those who have things with real value, and, by incentivising people to sell quality to buy nonsense paper, you push real quality and gold out of the economy. So, not only are legal tender laws immoral, they are economically stupid, except if you are a self-centered government who just wants to print money for yourself and your friends. Much as kings gave land to loyal supporters during the middle ages. This is neo-feudalism. Forget all that NONSENSE. Again, i'll revert you to the excellent article i posted about 5 or 6 posts up about the FACT That due to the principles of allowing the Private Sector which is dominated by inbred oligarchs who happen to come from your so called Nation, to follow Austrian policy and "Not intervene" With the sacred markets when HUMANITY ITSELF is at stake....... this proves you are guilty of the worst kind of Usery. "Let's forget 'ALL THAT NONSENSE' about the fact that there isn't enough Clean Water, Food or Energy on the planet, so we should allow 5 Billion HUMAN BEINGS to be kicked out of their houses via foreclosure, go bankrupt and STARVE TO DEATH. You are nothing more then a SOCIAL DARWINISTIC piece of filth if you advocate "Forgetting that Nonsense" - and infact - when YOU lose your job, lose your home and your nation fails, you will be on the street and you will get exactly what you deserve. What makes you better then the "illuminists" as you call them, as if they are enlightened in some way shape or form?. You advocate precisely what THEY DO, which is allowing the "Idiots" aka the CATTLE to lose everything and STARVE TO DEATH to OBEY a CULT of Market Rules invented by a group of shadey individuals... Hence putting the "Rules of the Von Mises Free Market" BEFORE Humanity Itself. What makes you better then a Nazi? can you please tell me? considering this crisis threatens to wipe out atleast 4 billion human beings and you refuse to engage in rational debate and provide ways to SAVE these HUMAN BEINGS, and instead follow a cult of economic laws that are complete falsehoods?. What is the difference between that and being a Nazi? It is pure usery and when you are finished using, you discard "Let them go bankrupt and kick them out of their homes, they are idiots"............. |
"Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate … It will purge the rottenness out of the system..." - Andrew Mellon, Secretary of Treasury, 1929. |
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In fact, I actually agree with Austrian Schoolers on many issues. Like them, I oppose all of the following:
* occupational licensing barriers;
* both wage and sales taxes;
* corporatist trade agreements that, as such, are neither "free" nor "fair";
* interventionist foreign policies;
* compulsory schooling;
* victim disarmament (i.e. "gun control"); and
* governmental assaults on civil liberties
And even on the issue of monetary reform, once fractional reserve banking has been outlawed and the current debt-based money system completely replaced by a debt-free greenback system, I would at least be open (particularly if certain election reforms remained unimplemented) to the idea of reforming the legal tender law so that U.S. Treasury currency is good merely for the payment of all public debts (as opposed to both public and private), since that would allow for a web of competing private currencies to rise up along side the national currency, thereby keeping those in charge of the latter in check.
However, there are four key issues on which I passionately disagree with the Austrian School:
(a) the idea that the only way to get out of the current depression is to let everything collapse first -- i.e., to let the very banking criminals who caused this crisis in the first place foreclose on everyone, and to euphemistically call this fraud-based looting of the real economy a market-based "correction" or "adjustment";
(b) the idea that the only way to have "sound" money is to institute gold-based money system;
(c) this cartoonish notion that all government regulations are bad by definition, and the consequent reluctance of the Austrian Schoolers over at lewrockwell.com to even mention the word "derivatives," presumably since doing so would call attention to the fact that the quadrillion-dollar derivatives bubble could never have been created to begin with had the Glass-Steagall Act -- a form of "government intervention" -- not been repealed in 1999; and
(d) the notion that there's no fundamental difference between commodity speculation, on the one hand, and land speculation, on the other (see this and this).
Now, putting aside for the moment the fourth issue (since I've never heard Webster address land speculation), I'll simply say that, such is the intensity of my disagreement with Austrian Schoolers on the first three, that if there were a presidential election tomorrow, and the only two candidates on the ballot were Webster Tarpley and Lew Rockwell, I'd choose Tarpley.
Not because I agree with him on everything, but because he (if nothing else) would at least not implement policies that would turn half the population into Third World peasants.
-Geolibertarian
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Revolt254's words:
in addition the austrian school neglects to acknowledge all modern private sector technology is DERIVED From non other then federal infrastructure investments. For example all modern computer chips... Where did they come lfrom ?. The kennedy space program. The internet ? Darpa. modern trade routes ?. The intercontinental railway.... So you want the free markets? the free markets DONT EXIST. It is a utopian ideal. An acronym for goldman sachs and jp morgan
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the reality of the situation is that tarpley has a far more realistic approach then the malthusian genocidal austrian insanity of allowing the entire system to collapse i.n order to obey the pure trickery posed by the snakes at the austrian school. What the austian school proposes is we take the economic expansion of 7 billion human beings and collapse it by pegging it to a piece of metal and strangulating the economy of currency to develope a sustainable amount of infrastructure that their beloved free markets are utterly INCAPABLE OF BUILDING...Thereby depriving billions of PEOPLE Of basic needs like CLEAN WATER TREATMENT PLANTS For example. you think the maglev is a waste ? go read a history book about what the intercontinental railway did in the 1800s. Austrians see any activity for general welfare of humanity as a waste while they NEGLECT THE FACT That modern capitalism is not possible without modern infrastructure. |
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geolibertarian:
If there's one thing this thread has proven to me, it's that the Austrian School is more of a religious cult than a legitimate school of "economic thought," because far too many of its followers end up revealing (in the heat of debate) that -- despite all the happy horse___ they parrot about "liberty" and "freedom" -- they simply don't care if literally millions of Americans starve to death, as long as they do so on the altar of Austrian School dogma.
The only difference is that, unlike most other cults, the Austrian School uses economic verbiage to conceal its true, sociopathic nature instead of religious verbiage. But at the end of the day the results are the same: innocent people being sacrificed on the altar of the cult's wackjob belief system.
It is for this reason that I'm more than happy at this point to let objective onlookers read the previous posts to this thread and decide for themselves which side of the let-everything-collapse-and-we'll-euphemistically-call-it-the-"free market" debate they agree with.
There's no need to preach to me about that, because I've railed countless times against compulsory government schooling for that very reason. The point is that one doesn't have to be pro-collapse (and hence pro-mass starvation) on economics to be pro-choice on education. Or to put it another way: one doesn't have to be in favor of "burning down the house" to be in favor of "roasting the pig." Austrian School cranks, of course, see it differently: as far as they're concerned, if you're not in favor of "burning down the house" (metaphorically speaking), then by definition you're a pig-lover!  |
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By the way, the addition tidbit, which i call a BOLD FACE LIE - by inserting the paradigm of "IT's either the Bailout, or Austrian school" is a falsehood in itself, because the methodology Tarpley is suggesting has NOTHING TO DO WITH A BAILOUT WHATSOEVER.
You refuse to acknowledge that there is anything in between "Bailout" and "Austrian School" - when there is this system that the United States was FOUNDED on, which prevented the United States from going bankrupt via WAR DEBTS and simoultaniously built the Nation.
The Bailout has not been advocated by ANYONE here, including Tarpley.
SO infact, you are setting up your own "It's the bailout or Austrian school" Paradigm, and in addition you are insulting the United States, not Webster Tarpley.
It would also do you good to look up what the word "Socalism" Means, which is when the Government SEIZES MARKETS, which no one has even SUGGESTED here.
-Revolt 254
You refuse to acknowledge that there is anything in between "Bailout" and "Austrian School" - when there is this system that the United States was FOUNDED on, which prevented the United States from going bankrupt via WAR DEBTS and simoultaniously built the Nation.
The Bailout has not been advocated by ANYONE here, including Tarpley.
SO infact, you are setting up your own "It's the bailout or Austrian school" Paradigm, and in addition you are insulting the United States, not Webster Tarpley.
It would also do you good to look up what the word "Socalism" Means, which is when the Government SEIZES MARKETS, which no one has even SUGGESTED here.
-Revolt 254
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I said "JUST LIKE" those supporters.
Says you? I have gold and silver worth 4 times what it as when I bought it that says you're on crack. That wasn't even an answer by the way. If I were intellectually on the same plane of course, I'd just come back over the top and say "nu uh, we all die by your system" and then my daddy can beat up your daddy, and fat mama jokes, so on and so forth.
OH, the Constitution, eh? What does it say about gold backed currency?
Gold BACKED currency? I suppose you haven't READ it - and your silver and gold, fine go hoard it! no one is saying you can't.Says you? I have gold and silver worth 4 times what it as when I bought it that says you're on crack. That wasn't even an answer by the way. If I were intellectually on the same plane of course, I'd just come back over the top and say "nu uh, we all die by your system" and then my daddy can beat up your daddy, and fat mama jokes, so on and so forth.
OH, the Constitution, eh? What does it say about gold backed currency?
The issue is, you cannot use PHYSICAL GOLD as a currency, and state it has instrinisic value with NO ECONOMY or BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE.
The reason your metals have gone up in price, is because we have a Private Bank called the Federal Reserve, that is pumping labour-free debt currency into the system and people are FLEEING from the DOLLAR.
If we had a FUNCTIONING economy, capable of producing physical goods that other nations would PURCHASE, then your gold would be utterly worthless other then for decorative purposes.
-Revolt 254
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Try making these space age utilities without metals, or oil, or coal, or property, or electricity that's owned by private citizens and companies
you are very confused.... VERY CONFUSED - obviously you appear to think Tarpley, or the American System advocates the Government Seizing Private Markets --- UHM NO.The system is simply the Government issuing currency by developing Infrastructure to progress humanity AND the PRIVATE SECTOR.
Rebuilding a Nation with Federal Credit because the PRIVATE Sector is BANKRUPT, and will be BANKRUPT for atleast a DECADE....
Now, in the interem - do you propose we let the entire economic system collapse and go back to the stone age, as we wait for the Private Sector (AS IF IT COULD) to "Revive" itself, as if somehow the bankrupt private sector could rebuild itself at current population levels without modern infrastructure...
The simple issue of the lack of Water and Energy is enough to disprove that (The Private Sector being able to rebuild the Nation with current population levels) hence, if we allow the system to collapse it will result in Malthusian Genocide, Which by the way, is EXACTLY what Prince Phillip, Al Gore, Rockefeller and the rest of the cronnies would LOVE to see Happen.
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You have just proved you haven't the slightest clue about how economics works. Labour is PRIOR to Capitalism, you cannot have CAPITAL without LABOUR - Hence the Gold Standard that De-Industralized the country in the 1830's, forced the Southerners to rely on SLAVE LABOUR to provide for their CAPITAL...... which by the way was entirely orchestrated by none other then Lord Palmerston of the United Kingdom.
Take your gold coins, hoard them, and when the economy collapses, you will have just that, GOLD COINS. Does gold have arms and legs? Can Gold produce physical goods that people in other nations wish to purchase? NO.
I have nothing against you hoarding coins, what i do have something against is a policy that would result in 4 to 5 billion people dying, which is a policy that you happen to be advocating with masses of ficticious data that has been disproven in this thread...... So take your Gold Coins, Hoard them and be happy - but do not push a policy that would result in massive death for your own selfish reasons as your insane quote in the first page of this threat higlighted in regards to "Letting the idiots who took mortgages out go bankrupt and kicking them out of their homes".
-Revolt 254
The Constitution's preamble states clearly, the goal is the "General Welfare of the People" first of all, Secondly a MagLev would LOWER transportation costs of goods and INCREASE Transportation SPEEDS of GOODS, such as FARMERS goods, as you mentioned.
So the price of farming would GO DOWN, food commodity PRICES would GO DOWN, because of the modern updated infrastructure, Hence people would infact be able to AFFORD the FOOD. In addition, without Modern PowerPlants, as i highlighted in the first page of this thread AS WELL - there will be NO FARMS.
I cited the Tennesse Valley Authority, you ignored it (of course)
In any case, i am finished debating you because you have been 100% DEBUNKED and your cultish insanity prevents you from grasping reality. So enjoy your gold coins when you are starving to death. GOOD DAY SIR.
-Revolt 256
It's not an alternative, it is infact the system founded by Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton amongst others during the ratification of our constitution and instituted via our first President, Washington.
It is a system that directly issues currency by monetizing federal sovereign credit (Lending Money) for Infrastructure , which stimulates the private sector and provides for the General Welfare of the population.
For example, The Tennesse Valley Authority provided Electricity via power plants during the Great Depression via Federal Funding to re-develope farms that had been destroyed when the Private Sector went bankrupt and was unable to provide them with their basic needs.
-Revolut 256
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