OK, so, assuming that your system worked. Here is my fundamental question. By issuing fiat money, you have diluted the overall supply of money, taking it from other people via inflation. This is a given. Because the economy is a closed system, it can only be grown by labour that generates wealth. Printing of money does not create wealth.
So, with that in mind. Pray tell, what is the opportunity cost of your proposal, because I assure you there is one.
And what is the moral cost? Socialism breaks down family structures and morality, moving people from work, saving and local interdependence, towards speculation, gambling, and dependence on the state.
What are the financial and moral implications of your plan? How would your spending be any better than the spending of G.W Bush, Tony Blair, or anybody else? Giving you the power to print money, is that not a moral hazard that would be used by future leaders? What about your posterity?
A Credit system is Low interest rate federal LENDING to rebuild the Nation , so an example of a successful policy in regards to this similar to the Intercontinental Railway and TVA would be a Mag Lev as i mentioned.
You issue a contract that is BIDDED on by a multitude of companies with the ability to do something of this nature (Machine Tool Workers) and you LOAN them low interest sovereign credit (LENDING) to the tune of maybe 1% interest and lower.....
Now, in regards to the "Power to Print Money" the American System is run via Congress Approprations of Lending and Treasury Issuence of Credit.
So, the nation would be UNABLE to print money without labour being involved because all of the money printed would be directly invested into infrastructure projects, which directly represent the economy and population as opposed to gold.
In regards to "Socialism" , this is another false paradigm that was created by the powers that be and that is parroted by Austrians (I am not attacking you here), the Government building of Railways, Power plants and Water Treatment facilities is NOT Socialism.
Socialism (As opposed to what we have today, which is the fascist corporatist state) is when the Government Seizes Markets. AN example of actual socialism is Hugo Chavez seizing all of the oil companies in Venezuella.
The American System does no such thing - there is no preventative measures that restrict the private sector from doing what they please in regards to building infrastructure. But the reality of the situation is, as i have said, the Private Sector is bankrupt , unwilling and unable to build the basic neccessaties for an economy to function - so Federal Lending would be the only solution to prevent a thermo dynamic collapse (Meaning, the modern civilized economy would cease to function) of the Nation.
I would just like to add, that the word "Fiat" is such a Dogma these days because it is based on the assumption that "Currency is backed by nothing but the Federal Government's word" -
But if the system were overhauled to that of what we began with, and modernized , "Fiat" money would actually be representative of the Nations economic infrastructure and ability to produce , provide for transportation of , and sell to other nations , physical goods.
I would say that a Currency that is represented or valued per physical labour and a Nations economic output is far more valuable then Gold, which is indeed a piece of metal (Scarce or not) that is incapable of increasing a Nations ability to produce physical goods.
So, in conclusion you cannot put a value on currency (Via Gold), you can put a currency on a Value (The Value being the Economies ability for physical production highlighted by it's underlying infrastructure).
-Revolt 254
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In regards to this nonsense that i already disproved, the Government building infrastrucuture, as designated in the Constitution as "For the General Welfare of the people, is NOT SOCIALISM - SOCIALISM IS WHEN GOVERNMENT SEIZES MARKETS.
-Revolt 254
It's not just supply and demand.
It's regulation over the money supply.
There are tons of houses out there! Alot people would like them - but a Depression has been orchestrated by an Empire, based in London......
These actions have NOTHING to do with any such laws of supply and demand, because those laws do not take dynamics into interest.
Math is not Science, the Austrian school of economics does not take people into account or their minds. The Human mind must constantly update their infrastructure via science (New discoveries) as the population expands.
Putting a cap on this is equivelent to suicide of the race, but we need not go extinct because we are running out of Drinking Water.
There is a Scientific Solution that the private sector is currently unable to provide, which is De-Salination of Salt Water via Nuclear Power plants, which has been proven to work in numerous areas. This is one of many examples of how you must take the population into account in economics, not just laws and math.
-Revolt 254
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That is exactly why they must be regulated. Specifically, the Private Sector Financiers / Speculators. That doesn't mean that all Regulation is good, it means that parasitical regulation is necessary for any Freedom to be acheived.
What i find very disturbing is, (Not targetting you, because you are obviously aware of this), There are numerous people parroting Austrian Philosphies on the Forum and labeling them as the "Free Markets"......... and Austrian Fundamentals haven't the slightest thing to do with any freedom whatsoever.
Primarily their 2 pillars, which is Gold Must be used as a currency and All Government intervention/regulation is bad for the economy. In addition, they claim contractions of monetary supply are great because everything will just adjust and the dollar will strengthen (As if the markets had an invisible hand!) .......
However, They do not just adjust. People go bankrupt (Farmers foremost) and starve to death, this is precisely what happened in every real Depression in U.S. history - which is contraction of the monetary supply or "Deflation". Austrians would prefer 30% Deflation as opposed to 10% inflation....... because the word inflation is so frightening to them that they ignore what the word DEFLATION would do.
If anyone wishes to see what deflation does, i would suggest looking at the period from 1929 to march 1933 because it resulted in economic collapse , massive unemployment, starvation and breadlines....... the result as of FDR's Inauguration was, the United States banking system was no longer functioning.
As for the use of Gold as a currency, this is another tremendous problem that has nothing to do with "Free Markets". Infact, you will probably become a slave if Gold is used as a currency because there is NOT ENOUGH Gold to supliment the expanding population. This may not have been the case 400 years ago because we didn't have 6.8 Billion Human Beings on the planet.... However, as of now, if we were to enstate a domestic Gold Standard the resulting deflation would essentially bankrupt the nation , making all who weren't elitists slaves to creditors. For instance, think of all the people who now owe debt in the form of mortgages , commercial loans, auto loans, student loans, installment loans, credit card loans etc....
Now, if you enstated a Gold Standard and followed Austrian Contract rules, you would owe *Example* 100,000$ on a mortgage, and your weekly salary would drop from a higher sum (If you were lucky enough to get a job) and would be more like 100 dollars a week. I am sure you can see it would take your entire life to pay off 100,000 dollars and you would likely die before paying it off.
Other problems with the Gold Coin Standard consist of
A) The Gold does not represent the economic or population expansion rate
B) "Coin Clipping" was a serious problem when Coin standards were enstated
C) the elites control 80+% of the world Gold Supplies/Mines
D) Gold Standards make it impossible to recover from a Depression due to lack of or strangulation of currency to rebuild the Nation's infrastructure.
E) The very reason the Austrians say it works which is, "Scarcity" - is the very reason it doesn't work. If the economy is to expand, the monetary base must expand. If the economy is to recover from a Depression the monetary base must expand rapidly so long as it is issued into Productive Scientific Infrastructure that enables the Private Sector to Function. For Example, Without Clean Water, the Human race cannot survive - and since we are running out of Clean Water (For Drinking and Crop Irrigation) , we must develope things to produce clean water such as Nuclear De-Salination of Salt Water, which has been proven to work. This is one of many examples of required infrastructure for civilization to continue to function...... others include:
* Repairing and scientifically updating the collapsing Bridges, Roads , Railways which are needed for transportation of Human Beings and Productive Goods
* Developing new Power Plants (4th Gen. Nuclear and eventually Laser Fusion) to provide power to factories , farms and the like for production
* Mass Transit which is more efficient then cars since the Auto Sector is dead (For years atleast)
* + Any Scientific Creation by use of the Human Mind that would improve living standards and spurr the private sector
The point being, a Physical Economy is based on it's underlying infrastructure. And infrastructure is a Scientific Developement. When population expands, infrastructure must be updated to facilitate that population or you get poverty, and if neglected long enough, genocide. This is why Africa is still a third world continent..... do you see any railways in Africa? Water ways? Means of Power and Transport for any private sector to be able to produce and transport goods?......... We are heading towards that situation if we allow our basic economic infrastructure to collapse...... and if we do not modernize it to facilitate population levels we will not recover from this nightmarish economic meltdown (This is not a Depression , it is a systemic collapse, so we must take all statistical economics and toss them)
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What if that person you are targetting honestly earned his income by working his *ss off his whole life? is that still a justifiable approach?
I have a better suggestion - how about we reform our monetary system so instead of a Private Central Bank controlling our entire currency and monetary system, the actual people we elect into office control it?
The Federal Reserve system is loaning money to banks without Permission from Congress or the President, how about we get rid of that system and cut the banks out of the equation, then we replace with a system that invests money, instead of loaning it, into infrastructure (such has high tech railways, agriculture). This will create jobs and give the currency a real instrinsic value because it has been spent or worked into the economy, rather then *Loaned at interest* as the Federal Reserve system does.
Does that sound like a good idea to you?.
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What is not great about Printing money out of thin are? Well allow me to elaborate!
When you print money out of thin air it has no value , and the only way to maintain the currencies value in that sort of system is to have Foreign Countries Hold US DEBT Such as CHINA .
However, Foreign countries no longer wish to hold US debt because the dollar is on the verge of collapsing, so printing money "out of thin air" will directly inflate the currency as soon as the currency is spent into the economy.
The banks that are receiving these capital injections are NOT Loaning it to people, they are instead hoarding all of it and waiting to either pay off their Derivative Obligations or Consolidate their competitors. This can be seen already by Bank of America Consolidating Merrill Lynch and Countrywide - and by Wells Fargo Consolidating Wachovia, and by JP Morgan Chase consolidating WAMU.
This means that larger banks are essentially EATING all of there competition, which in turn leads to Fascism.
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If you didn't find out yet, Russia has not been a Communist nation since the Soviet Union collasped..... i figured you knew that already...
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Quote from: planning4acrash on May 16, 2009, 02:00:26 PM
Revolt, you are revolting and a freaking IDIOT, just come out and say it, that you are anti the American Constitution, and against Ron Paul, that you are against sound money and the morality of the state not stealing our wealth, you are a disgrace to the truth movement
Aww did i upset a disproven theory by posting US History? I am so sorry, how disgraceful, i am worried about the worlds population.
As shown, by the CLAUSE of the constitution and HISTORY of the United States i posted, you haven't the slighest idea of what the U.S. Constitution is , and you are a brainwashed disgrace to humanity, because you (As you admitted in another thread) would rather see 2/3rd's of the Planet wiped out just so you can have Gold as a currency.
Some Cultists never suprise me - in any case - i think the paper speaks for itself and you infact, did not provide an argument against any facts in it did you?
you just went off blathering again didn't you?.
Well, some things never change........ Cults?.
-Revolt 254
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http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.0
Oh by the way, i love the NeoCon tactics that you use, pointing to Webster Tarpley as if he thought up the idea of the Greenback System and was responsible for Benjamin Franklin, Washington, Hamilton and many other of our leaders in the 18th and 19th Century.Get with the program, this has nothing to do with Tarpley - It has to do with Monetary Reform and U.S. History. Tarpley just has enough brains to point that out, you on the other hand - just kick and scream and throw temper tantrums whenever someone posts anything that disproves your Austrian "THEORY" , because that is all the Austrian School is. A tremendous hoax of a theory, that has never succeeded economically and has no historic base.You also fell right into the "WAHH WAHH that's Socialism" Trap, so i suppose Benjamin Franklin and George Washington were Socialists! That is a new one to me. Is the Post Office Socialism? How about the Fire Department? Developing Canals for River Traportation that never would have been developed by the "Free Markets". ?You going to provide an argument or just stamp your feet and post Patriotic Austrian threads that have been debunked?.
-Revolt 254
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Does anyone have an actual logically based argument which includes sensible reasoning, references, empirical evidence, sourced information, linked content, visuals, and sound debating tactics? You may not agree wit Revolt, but you have to admit that there are some complex situations regarding economic stability and there should be some deep understanding of this stuffrather than just 'you are a socialist' stuff. Obama has nothing to do with socialism. He is proposing to take 30x the wealth from the individuals and give back 1x the wealth in socialist programs. 30-1. Rothschild/Rockefeller take 30 and give you 1. That is not socialism, that is feudalism. As far as attacks on free market capitalism, those definitely should be debated with fervor, but just passing off Revolt's research as quasi-socialism is quasi-silly
It is not socialism. Socialism is based on the idea that people give labor to the government and the government provdes social services. Obama's puppetteers are the same as Bush's puppetteers. It is not national socialism but complete slavery. Research neo-feudalism for more information. Rockefeller and Rothschild are the slave owners.It is a big club and you ain't in it.You and I are not in the big club.
-Sane
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Again, this essay has nothing to do with Tarpley other then using his quotes to point the obvious situation and history of the United States out, or highlight it.When people revert to attacking the "messenger" instead of the "message" it means they have no logical argument - sort of like Ron Paul says he is just the messenger. This essay does not ecompass half of the ideals Tarpley would like to see instituted as he is a progressive democrat and i am not.No one advocated "Enlarging" Government, this essay is on monetary reform and the Constitution grants specifically grants the Government the duty to issue currency.What it is issued INTO, is the primary focus - productive activity (In this case, meaning infrastructure) , -or- loaning to banks so they can do whatever they want with it.Attacking Tarpley, as shown - is just more pointless , substanceless blathering.
-Revolt 256
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Again, you target Webster Tarpley when my entire essay merely quotes him a few times, can you say STRAWMAN?
How about critiquing MY ESSAY?. can you do that or can you just sling personal attack and scream "NO! BIG GOVERNMENT" like bloody murder (another Dogma since this has nothing to do with big Government).
As for his opposition, he does that because the policies of the Austrian School that i have attacked would destroy the planet, not to mention, the Chicago Branch and Milton Freidman ARE INDEED responsible for this MESS.
Are you aware that Larry Summers and Bernanke are FLAMING Milton Freidman lovers?. Bernanke even said to him on his death bed "You were right, we did cause the Great Depression and because of you, it will never happen again" - (Business Week Mid May). Are you aware Larry Summers confessed he is a Milton Freidman Lover?.
In any case, i am attacking both branches of the Austrian School (The Real one and the Diluted Chicago Branch) and it has nothing to do with Tarpley whatsoever - so if you wish to respond to something i have argued in the essay feel free to post.
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Neocons wrap themselves in the American flag when promoting their views; Obama cultists wrap themselves in the "anti-racism" flag when promoting their views; and certain Austrian Schoolers wrap themselves in the Ron Paul flag when promoting their views.
It's a shameless appeal to emotion, nothing more.
-geolibertarian
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Quote from: planning4acrash on May 22, 2009, 04:44:26 PM
No, Globalist-un-libertarian, it is shameless that you never refer to and discuss ACTUAL Libertarian theories when you try to criticize them. You simply state that the outcome is genocide, but give NO reasons, based on a true analysis of the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle. It is you, my dear, who attempts to appeal to emotion, via fearing people away from sound economics.
I believe my entire essay highlights (probably more than 10) reasons that the Austrian Policies would kill a tremendous amount of people, the fact that the monetary supply would contract and the population would remain the same already proves this, but in addition to that - my entire essay is dedicated to exposing HOW the GENOCIDE would occur, and HOW IT HAS OCCURED on Precious Metal based systems in the United States.
You already know, Millions would be kicked out of their homes due to foreclosure after the monetary supply contracted and they were unable to pay their bubble denominated mortgages, but this is not enough for you. You do not care about (Over 10 Million people in the US and alot more world wide) , because you are a Sociopath and you would prefer to have Gold as a currency REGARDLESS of their deaths.
-Revolt 254
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Quote from: Michal Ptacnik on May 23, 2009, 04:00:11 PM
I meant out of pure economic manipulation, based on nothing but on accounting, as opposed to cycles based on wars, findings of new sources of precious metals, etc. I guess that quick period when they tried to make a Central Bank in the 19th century would for this purpose count as post-1913 since it is short and similar. The greenback panics you mention are caused by the same people who caused the later crises. In other words, the free market only creates a new nobility that wishes to gain more power.
Yes, you've noticed that too? . While i won't continue to respond to the *Same* weightless arguments over and over (looks a few posts above) , The Austrian version of "Free Markets" infact creates a power vaccume, and whoever has the most gold is the new JP Morgan, and considering they (The Elite) ALREADY have most of the Gold - Their arguments in this area are null and void.
The Austrian School ideals are based on a Utopian world where evil will never exist / return from existance, a world where there are no sociopaths, malthusians and the like - YET, if you do a bit of historic research, this HAS NEVER HAPPENED.
I would advocate the "Freest" markets possible WITHOUT parasitical sociopaths, bankers and royalty , and to do so ones sovereign Government must control the monetary supply, or their beloved "Free Markets" will control the monetary supply.
It's a simple thing to understand, you summed it up in a few words.
-Revolt 254
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You know, it varies depending on the perosn... It just so happens Geo has been around the monetary reform issue a lot longer than i have and has a lot more patience than i have in regards to people posting skewed history in the name of what they refer to as "Free Markets".
For instance, there is a LOAD of propaganda that comes from the Austrian school proclaiming Lincoln was a tyrant (without looking into what he actually did, since he was at war with the British Empire who essentially created the Confederacy).....
Another example being, "We should have allowed the Great Depression to correct itself"........ well, as anyone could see 1929-1932 and allowing that mess to "correct" itself resulted in a complete collapse of the U.S. Banking System to the point where people were unable to withdraw currency and cash checks by FDR's inuaguration....... So, i don't think that is really accurate, i don't believe that an invisible hand would come down and make those insolvent banks function again........ a very similar crisis to today in regards to the web of derivatives (however today's crisis is FAR worse in this globalized mess of an economy).
I would think the "invisible hand" would work only with a sound economic system for typical corrections (that do not destroy countless lives). When you have a Depression or full blown collapse on your hands, you really have to produce your way out of it (Re-Industrialize the Nation). The way to do that is to provide the modernized economic infrastructure to spurr the private sector.....
I mean, a short example...... we have 1/3rd LESS hospitals in this nation than we did in the 1940's..... obviously the population has expanded....... And they are still closing down on a monthly basis...
Our Dams are falling apart, our energy is totally in-sufficient to expand the economy, our bridges actually fall down! .
This should not be occuring, and it surely does not help the private sector with their daily economic activities...
So if a sound system were implimented there would be no need for a tremendous intervention (like the Government freezing all Derivatives and putting the FED system into bankruptcy reorganization)..... There would be natural corrections but the current situation cannot be corrected in such a way.
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Well, as i said.... Deficit spending does not really matter during a Depression since the goal is to re-industrialize the nations productive capabilities, but yes - i would cut departments that are useless if that is what you are asking (If i was President).
The first thing i would do however, is put the entire Federal Reserve system into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Re-Organization and FREEZE all Derivatives , because without doing so, any other actions are pointless.
-Revolt 246
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.160
By the way, for those that do not understand, the Federal Reserve is not a Bank, it is a Banking System (A parasitical one) therefor, putting the system into bankruptcy.
Do you think we can tell China "We aren't paying our debt, screw you" and avoid a war?. We are dealing with a Global Collapse of the entire world monetary system and we have the same clowns with the same non existent arguments .....
Bankruptcy Reorganization is the only Constitutional way to destroy all derivatives (You know, the 1.5 Quadrillion $ Worth that is destroying the entire planet) , once the FED system is ridded of the Derivative mess, you can go ahead and Nationalize it into the Treasury department and have a sovereign currency...
Ammended * It is also under bankruptcy judge supervision
-Revolt 426
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http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.200
I forgot about War Plan Red, (Although i concede it has nothing to do with economics).... This also occured after McKinley was killed, and we do know Lord Palmerston of Britain was responsible for the Confederacy seceeding..... War Plan Red actually led to Pearl Harbor. So we have Lincoln, 100% enemy of Britain, and Teddy Roosevelt 100% ALLY of Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red
......War Plan Red was created because Americans knew Britain was locked in a strategic alliance with Japan, the Anglo-Japanese Alliance of 1902. American planners thought that Britain’s imperial reach would bring it into conflict with the US. In 1935 War Plan Red was updated and specified which roads to use in the invasion. "The best practicable route to Vancouver is via Route 99" (Carlson, 2005). Further, in 1935 Americans planned to build three military airfields near the Canadian border and disguise them as civilian airports. "In February 1935, the War Department arranged a Congressional appropriation of $57 million dollars to build three border air bases for the purposes of pre-emptive surprise attacks on Canadian air fields" (Berlin Glasnost, 1992-2007). The airfields were to be kept secret but their existence were accidentally published on the front page of the New York Times on May 1, 1935.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.200
There will always be corruption, but it AMAZED me to see that on the Campaign for Liberty website!, good lord.
Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders started the god d____ spanish american war - McKinley was opposed to it , Roosevelt started it.......
The Lincoln issue has been debunked IN DETAIL numerous times on this forum, Lord Palmerston , Prime Minister of Britain wanted to cut the United States in half. So he funded the Confederacy, gave them free trade agreements for cheap slave cotton and sent in military advisors like CONFEDERATE GENERAL ALBERT PIKE.
And the Bashing of John F Kennedy, as if he was responsible for the CIA hitting Cuba behind his back.... he actually attempted to DESTROY the CIA.
Then the final oddity, Calvin Coolidge (Of all people) ranked 8th BEST President, the guy responsible for allowing his Treasury Secretary to create a bubble (Andrew Mellon) that was imploded in 1929.......
I Just can't believe what i am seeing here......
-Revolt 426
Let's recount, i never said a word about a Limit, regardless - Lincoln increased spending by 300% into productive infrastructure
I never said a word about anything to do with a 1980 Gold Price.. (perhaps you are looking at another persons quote again)
I said McKinley advocated a Gold Standard (And he advocated using Lincolns policies, as you highlighted partially with the Tariffs and building railways)
I addressed the Panama Canal, which was not infrastructure on or for the United States but an act of Britsh backed imperialism.
And privately funded railroads? where is this coming from? yea they exist - have you seen any MODERN RAILROADS LATELY? ..... how about ANY OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE?.
Let's see who is wrong, you compared Abraham Lincoln to Teddy Roosevelt - two complete opposites that had nothing to do with each other (Roosevelt was a traitor, Lincoln actually saved the Union from collapsing) , and then you say Teddy Roosevelt was a Greenbacker because he expanded the monetary supply in 1907?... this means, what?. Because he expanded the monetary supply by issueing Greenbacks there still wasn't a Gold Standard (It was SUSPENDED TEMPORARILY).
Who is lying? huh?. who links to a blog for information about Presidents?.
Have you even responded to 75% of the things i've written (instead of cherry picking what you could point and say "Ad Hominem" aka "You are a liar i have no counter argument from the Austrian school), or the video you said you didn't watch or ..... maybe i should just stop, you aren't really worth wasting time blathering about diversions, "Teddy Roosevelt was a Lincoln Nationalist" is that a joke?. Actually McKinley's policy was "We are going to fight through the Gold Standard" meaning, we are going to BUILD THINGS. So, infact 90% of the history you posted was nonsense including your pathetic attempt at attacking Stephen Zarlenga as opposed to actually debunking his refute, which (If anyone read it : http://monetary.org/refute.htm) they would see that Mengers theory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
-Revolt 426
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Austrian School cultists just never stop. The moment they find out someone has created a thread devoted to explaining to people that, contrary to Austrian School dogma, it's not necessary to destroy our economy (by letting criminal bankers foreclose on everyone and then euphemistically calling this parasitic wealth-transfer a market-based "correction" instead of a fraud-based looting) in order to save it; that it's not necessary to burn down our economic "house" in order to roast the inflationary "pig"; and that crucifying mankind upon a cross of gold is not the only alternative to enslaving mankind within a prison of debt, they immediately flock to that thread like obsessed stalkers and begin trolling and trolling and trolling, ad nauseam, in a desperate attempt to derail that thread, and to discourage relative newcomers from learning more about the "Greenback" alternative.
A typical Austrian School troll
If, after all the facts and information that've been presented in this and other threads, anyone is still foolish enough to take these discredited trolls seriously, then that person probably deserves to live in aristocratic tyranny (which is exactly what the let-everything-collapse/cross-of-gold approach of the Austrian School would quickly lead to).
-geolibertarian
So go ahead, ad hominem, and populem, ad nauseum , strawman this to death.
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http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.240
And the major flaw, or catastrophe you are pushing is to allow the entire system to go bankrupt and collapse, with the idea that others will purchase the wreckage - when infact a systemic collapse would destroy the entire Republic before you could even buy up the post industrial, 50-60 year old infrastructure, dwindling hospitals, bridges falling down, energy grids collapsing, Railways collapsing, pathetic old energy output statistics that cannot meet the populations demands and a 10 page list of other things that would restrict any recovery from occuring.
The flaw is , that you think there will be "Wealth" after the system collapses for people to buy anything , when infact , if you look at what happened in 1923 Germany - the result of this was HITLER (And so forth throughout history). You do not dig wealth out of the dirt, you produce and sell things to create wealth. Until this is realized, no solution will be available.
This argument only exists in the brain of one who cannot comprehend reality or history..... given the fact that you live under a monarchy i can understand where you are coming from, however in the United States we have broken free of Corporatist Fascism WITHOUT wiping billions of people out and we intend to do so again.
You admire Ron Paul, your argument assumes Ron Paul is part of the Corporatist State just because he is a politician. I admire others like Marcy Kaptur who are not afraid to publically address Derivatives. I do not think she is part of the Private Corporatist state nor do i think it is impossible for the people to regain control of their Government (which has been done numerous times here in the United States)..... while others may maintain "The Government is always the enemy EXCEPT FOR RON PAUL"........ i would just have to disagree with that.
In addition, the definition of Liberty is flexible in terms of the Austrian school, because according to you, allowing a systemic collapse of the entire economic system is freedom! .... well i beg to differ because i do not think de-populating the planet has any resemblence to "Liberty"..... i addressed this in the original post specifically with Exchange Rate Controls (Amongst other things). So the problem is, your definition of Liberty is quite inaccurate because private bankers looting elderly peoples pensions and 401k's is not Liberty in my view.
No, actually 8 Billion dollars of grant money was issued for a Mag Lev (which would require over a hundred billion) and he (or Barack Obama) wishes to build wind mills to replace functioning coal fired power plants - the true REVERSAL of progress for mankind.
He isn't building anything, all so called "infrastructure" in his budget is in the drastic minority and is window dressing to sell to the progressives in congress, nothing more.
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Well, are you referring to the private sector or the Government building infrastructure?
Infrastructure is the foundation of any economy, without it a modern economy will not function. No Road? no Transit. No Power? no factory.
Some kooks (Not you) maintain that "We do not know if a highspeed railway will improve the economy , the markets will tell us" - this is obviously insane as anyone can see:
The current railway systems are 50 to 100 years old and go about 60 MPH on average, a Mag Lev goes up to 360 MPH and costs ALOT less to function.
So what would this do? it would increase the transit speeds and reduce shipping costs in addition to linking economic population centers for trade. That would obviously spurr the economy.
If money is spent into means that are not productive, then i suppose you will eventually get inflation or an economic break down like the current situation. The fundamental ideal i disagree with is the idea that "Only the market knows what is going to spurr economic activity" when it is a true double speak since a human mind drives economic activity by inventing things in the first place.
-Revolt 426
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http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105934.280
-Revolt 426
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