http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109090007
danielsangeo (September 08, 2011 2:42 pm ET)
7
Not really. Ponzi schemes don't tell anyone who their investors are and promise huge returns on investment.
Social Security tells who their investors are and do not promise huge returns on investment.
Ponzi Schemes do not invest in anything tangible.
Social Security invest in US Treasury Bonds backed up by the full faith and credit of the United States.
Ponzi Schemes require an ever-increasing pool of investors to keep it going.
Social Security doesn't.
Are you getting the idea yet?
Social Security tells who their investors are and do not promise huge returns on investment.
Ponzi Schemes do not invest in anything tangible.
Social Security invest in US Treasury Bonds backed up by the full faith and credit of the United States.
Ponzi Schemes require an ever-increasing pool of investors to keep it going.
Social Security doesn't.
Are you getting the idea yet?
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highlyunlikely (September 08, 2011 3:10 pm ET)
62
Dan: Thank you for that clear, concise yet thorough summary of the differences between SS and Ponzi. Basically it comes down to one is honest and not motivated by greed. While the cons aren't about to suddenly come to their senses and admit they've been wrong all along - they've got a vested interest in continuing to insist on the lie - I appreciated your comment and would love if you'd repost it on all the SS-related threads.
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by danielsangeo (September 08, 2011 5:47 pm ET)
Maybe you should've thought about that before having people in there that would raid the trust fund just delaying the inevitable. The tax that you have to pay now is the fault of those that raided the fund. Blame them not Social Security.
And treasury bonds are a hell of a lot more tangible than anything in a Ponzi Scheme. Do you even know what a treasury bond is?
Yes, the baby boom is hitting. It's the reason Reagan increased the FICA tax and now we're running a $2T+ surplus. Also, you should've thought about that before you elected politicians that put the economy in the tank. It's not Social Security's fault; it's been running a surplus for almost the entire time it's been in existence.
3
The money isn't there. They are backed in this case by the full, faith and credit -- which means now in order to get our money back at what we were promised, we will have to pay a tax to get that money back.
Maybe you should've thought about that before having people in there that would raid the trust fund just delaying the inevitable. The tax that you have to pay now is the fault of those that raided the fund. Blame them not Social Security.
And treasury bonds are a hell of a lot more tangible than anything in a Ponzi Scheme. Do you even know what a treasury bond is?
The hell it doesn't. The baby boom is hitting. The economy is in the tank. That means the pool of investors is smaller, hence the shortage.
Yes, the baby boom is hitting. It's the reason Reagan increased the FICA tax and now we're running a $2T+ surplus. Also, you should've thought about that before you elected politicians that put the economy in the tank. It's not Social Security's fault; it's been running a surplus for almost the entire time it's been in existence.
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danielsangeo (September 08, 2011 5:59 pm ET)
3
solvent: capable of paying all just debts
Social Security can pay all just debts until at least 2038. And still, it can pay at least 74% of them after that time and dropping down to 70% into 2080.
And this assumes that no changes whatsoever will happen over the next 25-70 years.
Social Security is solvent for the next two and a half decades at least. Privatizing it leaves it vulnerable to the Bernie Madoffs of the world or the economic roller coaster.
And that's just flat out INSANE.
Social Security can pay all just debts until at least 2038. And still, it can pay at least 74% of them after that time and dropping down to 70% into 2080.
And this assumes that no changes whatsoever will happen over the next 25-70 years.
Social Security is solvent for the next two and a half decades at least. Privatizing it leaves it vulnerable to the Bernie Madoffs of the world or the economic roller coaster.
And that's just flat out INSANE.
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didi (September 08, 2011 11:53 am ET)
71
If Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, what do you call any pension plan?
The simple fact that current contributions fund pensions for today's retirees is irrelevant. In fact the only reason the GOP is trying to cut social security is because of the $2.5 trillion the federal government took out of the plan to fund tax cuts to the rich.
The simple fact that current contributions fund pensions for today's retirees is irrelevant. In fact the only reason the GOP is trying to cut social security is because of the $2.5 trillion the federal government took out of the plan to fund tax cuts to the rich.
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danielsangeo (September 08, 2011 1:29 pm ET)
5
I like these easy to read charts on Wikipedia. Yes, it's Wikipedia, but the data comes from the CBO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
Obama is reducing the rate at which we add to the deficit. From 2001-2005, Bush went from debt (as a percentage of GDP) from 56.4% to 63.5%, a 7.1% increase debt/GDP. 2005-2009 was even worse with 63.5% to 84.2% or a 20.7% increase.
From 2009 to September 5, 2011, Obama's increase was from 84.2% to 98% or an increase of 13%.
Now, it's been a while since I've been in a math class, but I believe that 13% is less than 20.7%.
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BLINDFAITH GUIDES THE MINDLESS says:
No mention of “O” and the plans of Numerous Tax Incentives, for Employers as for one example, hiring those who have been ‘unemployed’ for six months or longer…? Half truths.Doom and Gloom. A.Jones is ,now I am certain, politically ‘Repubish’…Just another angler for the repubs,although they, (both parties),are really Domestic Terrorists. Everyone keep accepting all this ‘fodder’ for distraction, it is their plan and it is working perfectly.
Many Blk women do want a decent man, but you have to search in the right places. Try looking in school/higher education. There are BEAUTIFUL, sweet, sassy, intelligent SINGLE Blk women in law/business school & PhD programs across the nation. There's a deficit in available Blk men in many of these places & many of us have to decide btw waiting it out & dating interracially (which can prove difficult). Also look at business & educational conferences, bookstores, etc. We are ready and waiting! :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
Obama is reducing the rate at which we add to the deficit. From 2001-2005, Bush went from debt (as a percentage of GDP) from 56.4% to 63.5%, a 7.1% increase debt/GDP. 2005-2009 was even worse with 63.5% to 84.2% or a 20.7% increase.
From 2009 to September 5, 2011, Obama's increase was from 84.2% to 98% or an increase of 13%.
Now, it's been a while since I've been in a math class, but I believe that 13% is less than 20.7%.
________________________
BLINDFAITH GUIDES THE MINDLESS says:
No mention of “O” and the plans of Numerous Tax Incentives, for Employers as for one example, hiring those who have been ‘unemployed’ for six months or longer…? Half truths.Doom and Gloom. A.Jones is ,now I am certain, politically ‘Repubish’…Just another angler for the repubs,although they, (both parties),are really Domestic Terrorists. Everyone keep accepting all this ‘fodder’ for distraction, it is their plan and it is working perfectly.
Many Blk women do want a decent man, but you have to search in the right places. Try looking in school/higher education. There are BEAUTIFUL, sweet, sassy, intelligent SINGLE Blk women in law/business school & PhD programs across the nation. There's a deficit in available Blk men in many of these places & many of us have to decide btw waiting it out & dating interracially (which can prove difficult). Also look at business & educational conferences, bookstores, etc. We are ready and waiting! :-)
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teeman1957 (September 08, 2011 3:39 pm ET)
2
Back in July of this year it was revealed on C-Span that there is a $22 trillion dollar surplus in Social Security. Obviously not a Ponzi scheme.
I believe the concern is over the retirement of baby boomers, which will begin to deplete that surplus. As more and more baby boomers retire there will be a much larger population of people drawing Social Security than there are people contributing. If the surplus holds out until enough baby boomers die off there shouldn't be any problem.
Since the average life expectancy has increased over the decades the actuarial numbers point to Social Security going bankrupt because of the imbalance between those drawing SS and those contributing to SS. With so many of us baby boomers being party animals a lot of us will probably die before our life expectancy and all will be well!
I believe the concern is over the retirement of baby boomers, which will begin to deplete that surplus. As more and more baby boomers retire there will be a much larger population of people drawing Social Security than there are people contributing. If the surplus holds out until enough baby boomers die off there shouldn't be any problem.
Since the average life expectancy has increased over the decades the actuarial numbers point to Social Security going bankrupt because of the imbalance between those drawing SS and those contributing to SS. With so many of us baby boomers being party animals a lot of us will probably die before our life expectancy and all will be well!
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slowtyper (September 08, 2011 7:15 pm ET)
3
It's been my observation that those who call SS a ponzi scheme lack the necessary intelligence to fully understand how the system works... have an ideological agenda that would like to eliminate it..are trying to inject another catch phrase into the political arena to manipulate the under-informed masses.. and must under no circumstances be trusted to have any credibility on any subject whatsoever..having failed the simplest of litmus tests.
just sayin'
just sayin'
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BLINDFAITH GUIDES THE MINDLESS says:No mention of “O” and the plans of Numerous Tax Incentives, for Employers as for one example, hiring those who have been ‘unemployed’ for six months or longer…? Half truths.Doom and Gloom. A.Jones is ,now I am certain, politically ‘Repubish’…Just another angler for the repubs,although they, (both parties),are really Domestic Terrorists. Everyone keep accepting all this ‘fodder’ for distraction, it is their plan and it is working perfectly.
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FreeinTX says:
They have been wanting to privatize SS for a long time. Bush talked about it all the time. They get your money, dump it into the stock market, pump and dump the money, over and over, to make a fortune on the bubbles they create, crash the market, blame it on anything from Tea Party rhetoric to a false flag terror attack, and tell those SS recipients, aww shucks, too bad, so sorry, those damn “terrorist” caused all you money to be lost.
That way the government never has to admit to the people that they claim to represent that their money is, and always has been, GONE! Remember Al Gore’s campaign platform? Lock boxes for SS? He didn’t get elected, so those lock boxes were never mentioned again.
Perry, Christie, a few others, they are all on board with SS privatization. I just wonder how they will sell it to the American people with the DOW at 10,000, down 35% from it’s peak, while gold is at $1900 an ounce and skyrocketing.
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FreeinTX says:
They have been wanting to privatize SS for a long time. Bush talked about it all the time. They get your money, dump it into the stock market, pump and dump the money, over and over, to make a fortune on the bubbles they create, crash the market, blame it on anything from Tea Party rhetoric to a false flag terror attack, and tell those SS recipients, aww shucks, too bad, so sorry, those damn “terrorist” caused all you money to be lost.
That way the government never has to admit to the people that they claim to represent that their money is, and always has been, GONE! Remember Al Gore’s campaign platform? Lock boxes for SS? He didn’t get elected, so those lock boxes were never mentioned again.
Perry, Christie, a few others, they are all on board with SS privatization. I just wonder how they will sell it to the American people with the DOW at 10,000, down 35% from it’s peak, while gold is at $1900 an ounce and skyrocketing.
