Peaceful dissent with Gary on the topic of Israel.

Gary said...
This Land...The Holy Land...Belongs to not only the Jewish People...but also the Palestinian People.This Land is also for Christendom...The New Israel. Zionism is secular and humanist. It is NOT for The Glory Of God in ANY way. Zionism is anti-Judiasm, before the establishment of the state of Israel, many Rabbis opposed this creation of a Jewish state...for certain prophecies had not yet come about. It is hatred for any non-Jew, therefore it is RACSIST.


Response: The Holy Land belongs to all people, yes in essence, but the Jewish people do have a right to create their own nation. Ethnic groups have created nations for centuries. Israel has a right to exist, regardless of what you say. The reasons are that there is a Jewish presence in the land spanning thousands of years (i.e. First Temple, 70 A.D., Romans, Byzantinum, the Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, etc), the Jewish settlers paid money to people to settle in the land (so it's not theft), and it is part of Bible Prophecy. For example, the Bible says that the Antichrist won't come until the nation of Israel exists, God will have compassion on his "chosen people" from the directions to come into the land, and Jesus said the fig tree must bloosom before his coming. The fig tree symbolizes Israel. That Jesus Christ, so I take the vast majority of Jewish rabbis, scholars, and Jesus Christ himself than other people. Just because many rabbis oppose the establishment of Israel, doesn't mean it isn't justified to exist. John Haggee is right to support the re-establishment of Israel. The total fullfillment of Israel's destiny is when Jesus returns and saves the 1/3 of all Jews from destruction from the Anti-christ. After that the New Israel will exist.

Don't be hypocritical since America had tons of land theft and some people believe America shouldn't have a right to exist as well. Arabs stole millions of square miles in North Africa, yet they've formed nations there. If Israel has no right to exist, then America and Arabic N. African nations have no right to exist at all as well. Don't be a hypocrite. It is not racism to promote chosen people. Christians are chosen to preach the gospel, but that doesn't mean Christians are racial superior to others or that is racism. occult Zionism is humanism and occult. Secular Jews must be opposed, but conservative honorable Jewish people in Israel must be praised. Not to mention that Arabs live in Israel and Christian Jews and Arabs preach and work plus live in Israel as well. Not all Jewish people who just want Israel to be a nation aren't racist and to assume so is an error by you if you believe that.

It is anti-Christian as well. And what makes me sick to my stomach is that so many Americans have died because of the state of Israel, especially American G.I.'s...U.S. foreign policy is a "bird of prey for the Zionist falconer"...and I am damned tired of American Tax Dollars going to support this Falconer...Israel it seems has become the 51st State in Our Union.And besides, from my understanding, Judaic Law allows "aliens"...in this case maybe, the Palestinians...to live also "in the Land"...it is POSSIBLE that Jew and Arab could unite and make the Holy Land prosper...culturally, religiously, agriculturally, economically, socially, militarialy, and politically...but violent and radical Zionist and Islamic Jihadist do not want this...their influence is the Enemy, the Deciever, the Liar, the Evil One...this is their influence and master...

Response: It is not anti-Christians to support Israel and Jewish people. I support Israel and the Jewish people forever. I don't support evil acts done by the Israeli government, evil Jewish people, or evil Arabic people. There's a difference. I think you have borderline anti-Semitism. First, G. I.s are dying for the elite, who have no alliegace to any nation since they promote world goverment. Second, Israel is controlled by the Foreign Elite in groups like the CFR, high level Freemasonry, SMOM, and the Jesuits. For example, a lot of Israeli Prime Ministers are high level Masons, the Vatican control tons of lands in Israel, and the CFR is in full support of the Roadmap to peace, which could be a roadmap to disaster. Zionism is divided into 2 camp. One camp are sincere, patriotic Jewish people who just want to come into Israel. These patriotic people don't want illegal wars, money sent to them for any reason, or anti-Semitism. Therefore, American is fighting for wars for global domination for occult Secret Societies and high level political groups in Europe and America not completely Israel at all. Do you think that Israel wants worldwide anti-Semitism, terror attacks, or its people being scapegoated in high levels? no, the individual Israeli on the street isn't benefiting from the events happening now at all.

The other camp are elitists, members of occult order, they embrace the occult Kabbala, and they want to oppress people and lead the nation of Israel into corrupt. Barry Chamish and Eric Jon Phelps made that perfect distinction. To call Israel the 51st state is silly, because Israel is its own nation plus most Americans don't accept any evil done by any nation (whether Isreal or not). Not to mention that Israel is just one nation and Europe and the USA committed more sin than Israel will ever do in homosexuality, abortions, gay marriage, invention of tons of occult Secret Societies, alcohol, bashing Christian values, etc. As for tax payers dollars, I don't believe that tax payers money unliterally should be sent to Israel, Egypt, etc. We should trade with as many nations as possible. I oppose evil on both sides.

...May The Lord God Of Heaven And Earth Rebuke.The ONLY answer is THE LOVE OF CHRIST HIMSELF, OUR LORD, GOD, AND SAVIOUR...THE KING OF KINGS...THE RULER OF ALL...WITH GLORY OF THE FATHER AND POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...THE MOST HOLY TRINITY...THE-THREE-IN-ONE AND THE-ONE-IN-THREE...this is the only way which must be trodded upon those ancient sand...

Response: I agree, but don't forget to never demonize Jewish people or Israel unfairly in anyway. God said that Israel is his apple in his eye and he will curse those who curse it. Never embrace the false accusation that Israel is to be blamed for all of the problems in the world as well. Don't follow the lie of anti-Semities and Muslim Islamofascists. Also, don't forget that Jesus is from the tribe of Judah and he is the King of the Jews, salvation is of the Jews, and Paul wrote that God isn't finished with Israel at all. The Bible says that the eyes of the Jews were blinded, so the Gentiles can recieve the gospel. Today, many Jewish people are converted to Christianity and Messanic Judaism today.

The Holy Christian Faith...the only answer for the Jews, the Palestinian Arabs(both Christian and Muslim), the other Arabs(both Christian and Muslim), all Peoples, Jews and Gentiles alike...American, Russian, Dane, Chinese, Irish, Samoan, French, Anglo-Saxons, Cherokee, Turk, Armenian, Spaniard, Aleut, Swahili, Greek, Mongol, Thai, Maori, and the list goes on...everyone made in GODS IMAGE...we are all Children of God!The Only Answer To The Holy Land...is The Love Of Jesus...for all.
18:13

Response: I agree. I will not compromise an inch and I will not back down. I defend the Jewish people right to exist in Israel unlike racists. Also, you should condemn the anti-Semitism displayed by the bigot schiedt. "For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye." -Zechariah 2:8

By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy)

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From http://web.archive.org/web/20050323113643/americanholocaust.homestead.com/BB_Art_antiIsrael.html


I have noticed with great concern that there presently has been a flood of anti-Israel/anti-Jewish propaganda flooding across the internet.
April 28, 2004

The writers who are behind it are quite intelligent, in some respects. They know how to work hard to dredge up every piece of dirt against Israel, her leadership and policies that they can possibly obtain. They are also clever enough to write ther articles in terms which would naturally enflame and anger anyone who read them against the Jews and Israel, regardless of whether they represent THE COMPLETE TRUTH or not.
I know this is true, because I have read a large amount of these recent inflammatory reports lately.

And had I NOT worked with various aspects of the Jewish community and individuals for years, and had I NOT lived in Jerusalem for a while, and had I NOT studied BIBLE PROPHECY for many, many years, I too would have been deceived by these misleading authors and been filled with anger towards the Jews and Israel as well by now.
But thank God, because of my background in these areas, I have NOT been mislead nor deceived.

Let me make this clear, however. When I state that I STAND WITH ISRAEL AND THE JEWS in this hour, I am NOT stating that I stand for the SIN that can be found within Israel. Nor for the unrighteousness that may control many in Israeli politics, etc. What I am saying is, I STAND WITH THE PURPOSES OF ALMIGHTY GOD through the end-time re-establishment of THE NATION OF ISRAEL, and the right of Jews to return and possess the land promised to them irrevocably by ancient and eternal covenant established by the God of Avraham, Yitzhak and Yakov and his seed.

Much end-time prophecy found in both OLD and NEW TESTAMENTS revolves around the re-establishment of ISRAEL AS A NATION, following her punishment by the scattering (Diaspora) of the Jews due to unfaithfulness and sin, and her people in exile from the Land for many centuries.

I wish to discuss the importance of understanding such end-time prophecies regarding present day ERETZ YISRAEL in future reports. And to thereby encourage God's people to NOT fall into the traps that these misleading and inflammatory reports presently AGAINST ISRAEL AND THE JEWS are setting for the hearts of many to be misled into.

Pam Schuffert

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Pam SchuffertEnd Time Bible Prophecy, OT and NT, CLEAR on ISRAEL

Fri Oct 10 2003 11:32:02 am204.250.86.85

During my years of studying the Word of God in Bible college and various other places of research, plus personal studies, I am convinced that the RESTORATION OF ISRAEL in these times is VERY Biblical and certainly NOT without the permission of God Himself.There is much end time prophecy, to be found in both the Old Testament (Holy Scriptures) and the New Testament, that could NEVER be fulfilled WITHOUT the restoration of Israel as a nation.Prophecy carrying both NEGATIVE connotations and POSTIVE connatiions will be fulfilled in ERETZ YISRAEL.

Those of us who have studied Bible prophecy regarding ISRAEL and her restoration as a nation in the end times, and the bringing out of the Jews from the nations of the Diaspora, to which they were scattered because of their unfaithfulness to God, have no problem believing that the present establishment of Israel is in accordance with BIBLE PROPHECY.The BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDOM could NEVER be fulfilled without the restoration of Israel. God's wrath and judgment on the unbelieving nations composing the multinational conglomerate world government of Antichrist (the BEAST of Revelation 13) could never be fulfilled without the restroation of Israel as a nation.The brief reign of the ANTICHRIST, coming into the restored temple in Jerusalem to "show himself to be God" (as Paul warns against) could never be fulfilled without the restoration of Israel as a nation.

The promise of God to bring His people out of the nations to whence He had scattered them for their unfaithfulness at one time, could NEVER be fulfilled without the restoration of Israel as a nation.Bible prophecy makes it clear that the feet of the returning Messiah, Jesus/Yahshua, will touch down on the Mount of Olives, which will cleave in two, providing refuge FOR THE JEWS from the coming holocaust. This can ONLY happen in a RESTORED ISRAEL of the end times!And much more.I totally support ERETZ YISRAEL (homeland Israel) because BIBLE PROPHECY SUPPORTS IT! God remains a COVENANT God, and He himself stand by His Word to fulfill it.Is there SIN in present-day Israel? Absolutely...just as there is SIN in AMERICA and EVERY OTHER NATION throughout the earth!Is there corruption in their government?

Absolutely...just as there is SIN in the AMERICAN government and in every other government throughout the earth.However, even this cannot negate the purposes of God through ISRAEL in the end-times, and His plans to bring MANY JEWS to FAITH IN MESSIAH through what is prophesied to come to pass in ISRAEL.I receive reports constantly trying to get me to stand against Israel, and condemning the existence of Israel as a nation. But after examining each argument against Israel in light of THE FINAL WORD on this subject, infallible Bible prophecy regarding Israel's existence and role in END TIME PROPHECY, I am compelled to cast such arguments away, however compelling by MAN'S reasoning, and stand instead on the WORD OF GOD.I therefore stand with GOD'S purposes and GOD'S WORD OF PROPHECY in the re-establishment of Israel as a nation.

This obviously does NOT mean that I stand with Israel's sins, or corruption, etc. But I stand with God's purposes and end-time prophecies to be fulfilled through this nation, even as He has declared.AS His word declares, HE is Israel's judge, lawgiver and king...AND NOT US! We Americans cannot even police and clean up our OWN sinful and wicked nation...we have gross corruption in our own government and sins throughout our nation MUCH LARGER than Israel...yet we dare to point the finger at tiny Israel???God's Word will prove true, both now and always.I stnad with the WORD OF GOD on this subject, and I stand with God's purposes through the re-establishment of Israel as a nation.

-Pam Schuffert

http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm

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From http://americanholocaust.homestead.com/BB_...ent_Israel.html

PLEASE NOTE: THIS WEBSITE STANDS UNAPOLOGIZED FOR THEBIBLICAL RE-ESTABLISHMENTOF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, for GOD'S LOVE FOR HIS JEWS(Messianic, or saved, and the unsaved whom He loves and died to reach for Himself, including those who are NOT actual descendants of the twelve tribes...because He died for ALL men to be saved), AND THE REALITY OF THE HOLOCAUST AND NUMEROUS JEWS SUFFERING AND DYING AT THE HANDS OF THE NAZIS THROUGH CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND OTHER MEANS. In the future I am going to be publishing articles illustrating WHY I make the above statements without apology.

No, I am not ignorant of the fact that many Jews ARE UNSAVED SINNERS who have rejected Yahshuah Ha'Moshiach as Lord and Savior FOR NOW....But this is exactly who He came and suffered and died to REDEEM FROM UNDER THE LAW...THE UNSAVED AMONG HIS PEOPLE!!! And if by some chance they are NOT His people due to NOT being TRUE JEWS (descendants of the twelve tribes, Ashkenazi.,etc) the wonderful reality is that JESUS THE MESSIAH DIED FOR ALL MEN TO BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY CAME FROM OR WHO THEY ARE!!!

Jesus Christ, YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH, died for the Jews and FOR ALL MEN TO BE SAVED! HE LOVES AND DIED FOR ALL SINNERS! This destroys the myth that somehow IF A JEW IS NOT A REAL DESCENDANT OF THE TWELVE TRIBES, or is EASTERN EUROPEAN, etc., that HE IS NOT LOVED OF GOD NOR DID GOD SEND HIS SON TO DIE FOR HIM! Nor does it mean that God for His sovereign purposes cannot draw them to ISRAEL for His end time events and agenda and purposes of reaching them for HIM, that they might become TUE JEWS WHO WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH INDEED!!Yahshua the Messiah died for ALL MEN..JEW OR NON-JEW! He died for ALL SINNERS! This means that He loves and died for even TALMUDIC JEWS, admitted sinners in His sight, and even NWO supporting Jews (which certainly exist and play a role in all this NWO agenda as well.) Regardless of how corrupt Israel may be, and regardless of how corrupt the ZIONIST JEWS MAY BE (and they are-I do NOT deny the truth and Israel IS a corrupt nation...BUT CERTAINLY NOT MORE CORRUPT THAN OUR NATION, AMERICA, nor her leaders as well) God has HIS PURPOSES IN CALLING FOR THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THIS NATION! BIBLE PROPHECY DOES INDEED SUPPORT THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL!

ANd many Jews who are NOW CORRUPT AND UNSAVED THERE are not only GETTING SAVED CONSTANTLY thru the witness of Messianic Jews living there....BUT THEY WILL BE SAVED THROUGH WHAT GOD IS GOING TO CAUSE TO HAPPEN THERE in the near FUTURE!!! ("AND SO ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.") There are those who are saying that BECAUSE ISRAEL IS CORRUPT, IT DOES NOT DESERVE TO EXIST!!! Imagine how foolish this thinking really is. Is this is the case, then AMERICA DOES NOT DESERVE TO EXIST...nor any OTHER nation on the face of the earth!!! Corruption of nations and governments exists in EVERY NATION WORLDWIDE!!! And OURS is among the MORE CORRUPT! SO is CHINA! So is RUSSIA! What American would nto flinch at the thought taht because WE ARE CORRUPT< WE DO NOT DESERVE TO EXIST AS A NATION AND SHOULD BE DESTROYED OR DISBANDED!!! This is unrealistic. SO MUCH of the anti-Israel/anti-Jewish literature is actually coming from CONFIRMED MODERN NAZI SOURCES rising up in Europe and America.

I know, because I have read it with my own eyes, ugly anti-Jewish hate literature handed to me by young rising Nazis in Germany when I visited Germany and got invited to their underground apartment in Munich. And much of it comes from MOSLEM SOURCES AS WELL...[people who have a vested interest in getting the JEWS OUT OF ISRAEL! But since WHEN did God ever [promise this land to MOSLEM PAGAN IDOLATERS who are much more sinful than the Jews there??? I witnessed this with my own eyes while living in Israel! The SAME REASONING presented to me by these young Nazis for HATING THE JEWS AND ISRAEL AND DOUBTING THE HOLOCAUST is what I find being increasingly published here in AMERICA and elsewhere. The HOLOCAUST has been confirmed repeatedly by those Gentiles and Jews who survived it and witnessed the mass purgings, round-ups, etc. Godly Christian people like CORRIE TEN BOOM AND MANY OTHER CHRISTIAN OBSERVERS OF THIS HOLOCAUST COULD READILY ATTEST TO THE REALITY OF THE ROUND-UPS OF JEWS AND THEIR DEPORTATION AND MASS MURDERS!

I have personally visited a concentration camp in Germany and can testify to the reality of the deathcamps in Germany and the horrors committed there....and readily admitted by the locals there as well! SO I caution my readers to BEWARE OF THE INCREASING HATE LITERATURE BEING PUBLISHED ON THE INTERNET AGAINST THE JEWS AND ISRAEL! God has a purpose for ALL men, whether Jews, alleged Jews (Ashkenazi, Edomite, etc.), corrupt Jews (and WHO IS NOT A SINNER IN THE SIGHT OF GOD!) And He has a purpose for ERETZ YISRAEL IN THIS DAY AS WELL! TO point a finger at the sins of Israel, and NOT to point the OTHER NINE AT THE SINS OF AMERICA is absolutely ludicrous and hypocrisy. And to attempt to use the sins of Jews and israel to CONDEMN THEM AND SAY THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO EXIST BECAUSE OF SIN is absolutely foolish! ALL MEN ARE SINNERS and ALL NATIONS AND GOVERNMENTS ARE CORRUPT! Jessus Christ came to JUSTIFY AND SAVE ALL MEN from their sins! That means ZIONIST JEWS (and who can tell me that God's HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT WORKING IN THEIR HEARTS TO REACH AND SAVE THEM??? And who can tell me that some are not being saved EVEN NOW??? MANY HJEWS ARE GETTING SAVED THROUGH FAITH IN THE MESSIAH both in AMERICA and in ISRAEL...as I have personally witnessed for myself.)) And to attempt to reject me or my Christian witness and website for reporting for standing with the PURPOSES OF GOD with the JEWS AND ISRAEL is foolish indeed. So this is where I stand on this subject. I WILL SHARE MORE LATER!!! Your feedback and comments are appreciated by email...pro and con (and belive me, I ahve read all the CON or AGAINST I can stomach!)

-Pam Schuffert